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#132510 - 08/08/06 01:21 AM Acting Out (triggers)
Olaf Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 5
Loc: New York City
I really don't know where to start with this post. I rarely make it through too many other posts before I have to go away, I can't deal with too much of other people's pain.

I was abused by a man when I was about eleven. Only once. My next-door neighbor. I was held down and..... I had no idea what was happening and I blocked the whole experience out. It came back to me the summer before I went to college, all at once. I knew that it had to be true. I saw a therapist at college, who told me that the incident had not marked me deeply, but I had some real issues with my family that I should work on. I thanked him and walked out. Boy, was that a mistake.

My father never abused me sexually, but he abused me in a whole lot of other ways. He beat me with a belt. He slapped me. He made me kneel down in front of him and beg him for forgiveness for whatever I had done wrong.

Now I'm married. I've been with my wife for ten years. I love women. I enjoy walking down the street and seeing them. I love every thing about them and I consider myself straight. I couldn't imagine being in a romantic relationship with anyone but a woman. Probably a woman a lot like my wife, who is caring and understanding and funny and all that great stuff. We'll probably have kids in a couple of years. We'll be great parents.

I've been seeing a therapist for about two and half years. Anger issues. Finally working on all that family stuff. But something opened up inside of me, and last year I started having fantasies that got stronger and stronger. Kneeling down in front of a man, fellating him. Getting held down and.....Getting spanked. Getting slapped. Being helpless, and dominated, and on, and on, and on.

So I went out and did it. Five men now. Each time I really, really hate being there and doing it. I know, it sounds like BULLSHIT. The lady doth protest too much. But I never, ever get it up. I'm scared, and I hate the sensations (although I like getting spanked). But I like getting ready for it. Posing for pictures. I still look young, and thin, and my ass looks good in tighty whities, and I get a total thrill out of sending strangers my pictures, and saying here I am, this boy, abuse me. And I like the end, after the guy's shot. I love that, cuddling with the guy, or just sitting there, appreciated for being thin and helpless and etc. And, when I'm home, I jerk off incessantly about it. I feel used and fucked and I love that.

My body says no, and this need I have to please dominating men says yes. But the need's on top of my animal instincts, overriding them.

The last time was a couple weeks ago. The guy was a really nice guy, but it just got out of control. I thought that we had the scene negotiated pretty well, but he had this thing about choking me. Big man, and he had total control over the whole thing, which was scary and hot. He started choking me again, and I fought it, because I really didn't like that at all. And I passed out, and woke up on his floor. He said seconds later, but it felt like a long time to me. Anyway, this is the really interesting thing to me, the takeaway. Coming up from being passed out, I thought that I wasn't there at all. I thought that I was home, and safe, and it was over, and I never had to do it again. It was a wonderful, lovely, peaceful feeling. Of course, I was pretty shocked to come around on this guy's rug, and I got dressed and got the hell out of there.

I've been walking around with that feeling of being warm and safe and not needing to go get beaten up by large men. The old desires come in on top of that feeling, though. I need to stop. This is not what I need, my body is fighting these behaviors, it knows that this is wrong. My basic sex drive is girls, girls, girls--nobody in my life ever thinks I'm gay. But I've got a dirty little secret. And I really need to stop. I know this isn't safe.

It's pretty clear to me that my sexual abuse as a kid has merged with the psychological/physical abuse from my father. Everything I want from these encounters, everything I really fantasize about, tracks into something that happened in my childhood that I was touched by. I'm stuck in this time somehow, stuck being eleven and scared. I hate it, and I want to stop, and I know that I'll be back typing "submissive" into a certain website's search function soon enough. Like this morning.

Maybe saying all this to you will help. Thanks for your time.


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#132511 - 08/08/06 01:33 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Check out: http://www.malesurvivor.org/Professionals/Articles/singer2.htm
and see if any of these patterns apply to you.
Ken


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#132512 - 08/09/06 11:42 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Strong triggers

Hi Olaf,

I have trouble with my acting "in" although not exactly in the same manner as you. For a combination of reasons that I donít understand I have had more sex with men than women. I donít keep count exactly but I know itís true even though I had girlfriends and was once married to a wonderful lady. Our relationship lasted for twelve years although we were married for four.

I am so confused. Part of me feels that I like women yet another part of me feels submissive and I want to be used as a sex toy or whore for men. Of course the guilt and shame soon follows.

Certain feelings trouble me and I've never admitted it before, even to myself. I think it may be a big part of all the shame I carry with me.

I donít know how to say this. I think I enjoy having sex with men. +++++++++EDITED OUT AS IT IS A LITTLE TOO SEXUALLY GRAPHIC+++++++++Ken Singer

Iím sorry if Iím too graphic, I was really trying to tone it down. Iím so fucked up. My molesters did a good job turning me into a whore. I hate myself. All I am is a good fuck. I canít help that I enjoy it. They turned me into a sick animal. I going to go cry now.


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#132513 - 08/10/06 10:27 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Sorry Ken


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#132514 - 08/10/06 01:38 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Gentlemen,
I am so glad that you felt safe enough to share the above comments with us; and just as glad that we all have this place in which to do that kind of sharing.
I am of the opinion that the kinds of sexual "dysfunction" (if that term really fits here) you seem to be describing are not as rare as you might think. A lot of guys, and not just MS members, find themselves swinging back and forth between physical attractions to women and to men.
Some of us, with lots of therapy, can work thru some of the psychological shit, and settle down as essentially straight or essentially gay. And some people can find a sense of "normalcy" or happiness in a bisexual identity.
BUT, Olaf, your physical safety seems to be at great risk just now. Please, be more careful, and do not seek out physical pain/damage.
We care about you here; keep us all posted with how you're doing.
Love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#132515 - 08/17/06 03:47 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
Olaf Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 5
Loc: New York City
Hi surfdude and george,

Thanks for posting. I'm hanging in and staying safe right now. I haven't checked back in a while, but I checked back today instead of..... all that. And I'm glad you posted, it means a lot to me. Peace.


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#132516 - 08/18/06 09:10 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
joseph7 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 18
Hi, Olaf:

Your safety is what matters most here IMHO and it might help to confide in one or two trustworthy people who care about you and will look out for you. Make an agreement that you will "check in" with them or they with you on a regular basis to insure that you will not put yourself in danger.

Maybe the forum can serve this purpose for you, at least for now.

Are you seeking therapy?

Your friend,

Joe


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#132517 - 08/19/06 03:28 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
outsider Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 1
Loc: uk
hello as my name suggests i have never been abused or raped, i hope you don't mind me taking part in your discussion.

I also have feelings of wanting or needing to be used as a sexual object by men, and have feelings of shame obout this, but i am trying to come to terms with the fact that this might be part of being a man that no one ever discusses. Who am i to say that what you guys are going through is not to do with what is in your past, i don't have anything in my past to put my problems down to though, i hope by me telling you this that you might have more acceptance of some of the feelings you have.

outsider.


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#132518 - 08/21/06 04:08 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
As far as we know, there is no "humiliation gene" that causes us to want to be humiliated. Those urges appear to come from our experiences. Behavior such as wanting humiliation re-inactment comes from the way our experiences effect our sexual development. Often we are effected by circumstances of abuse, physical and/or sexual - but other experiences can effect our sexual development as well.

It becomes "At Risk" behavior when the urges are something that interferes with our life by making us unhappy, has become a controlling compulsion, or causes risky behavior - in which case unraveling the urges and their origins, usually in therapy, becomes useful.

Outsider, you may want to consider therapy which can help you understand your feelings and where they came from - even if it isn't the result of CSA - feeling shame from our own urges is not what we need.

Surfdude, I can't agree when you say:
Quote:
My molesters did a good job turning me into a whore. I hate myself. All I am is a good fuck. I canít help that I enjoy it. They turned me into a sick animal.
IMO it's more helpful to say "Your molesters caused you to disconnect between sexual behavior and relationships - making you feel like a 'whore' and causing shame/self loathing because your sexual contacts lacked relationship. We enjoy what we are used to."

See, none of that was your fault - and now you have the opportunity to unload the effects of being abused with some help from others.

Olaf and Surfdude - may I suggest you would benefit from use of the "At Risk" forum - email Ken about joining. Everyone there knows what you are going through.

_________________________
"..this place isn't a discussion forum..it's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

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#132519 - 08/22/06 10:22 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Thanks Thad,

I am trying to understand why I choose to act out in the manner I do. I feel more ashamed of this than the actual abuse because I am choosing to do this compared to having no choice when I was first molested. I will email Ken.

Sunny


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#132520 - 08/22/06 03:52 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
ForeverFighting Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: New Mexico, USA
"choosing to do this", Sunny? I don't think we choose to. I guess we have choice? I don't know. Sometimes it doesn't feel like a choice. It's like the past pushes us into these things. We're just trying to get out from in front of the elephant so we can finally have a choice.

_________________________
ForeverFighting

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

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#132521 - 08/22/06 04:02 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
TX_Space Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Texas
"Having a choice..." That is such a tough phrase. I know what you guys mean. It seems like I have a choice when I act out. I think I am choosing to do it...but then, why in the hell do I feel so bad afterward? I'm supposed to be re-thinking my ideas of myself (that's my new T assignment).

What kind of man do I want to be? I want to be a good man who doesn't seek to medicate with pictures of other naked men. I want to be a good, solid, man of God...and deserving father.

I repeated those things to myself the whole way home yesterday...like a freakin' mantra. But, I had to run there to act out for 20 minutes before I picked my kids up from school. It didn't work. I still did it.

Was it a choice? Today it seems like it. But, yesterday, I don't know. I don't think an elephant...or a herd of them...could have stopped me.

sigh.
tx_space


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#132522 - 08/22/06 04:06 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Sunny,

Perhaps it would be more accurate to speak of succumbing to an overwhelming urge. I remember alcohol being like that for me. It was like a huge surging wave crashing over me, and after getting knocked down so many times it didn't seem to make much sense to resist when I felt it coming yet again. That's of course a bad stage to get to.

I think that's different from making a choice, though when I say that I'm not suggesting I wasn't still responsible for finding a way out of the problem.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#132523 - 08/28/06 11:21 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Thanks for the feedback guys. Thanks Olaf for the initial post.

Kind of eases the shame and guilt I feel.

Sunny


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#132524 - 08/28/06 02:14 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Sunny,

It's great you are feeling better about those two. Shame and guilt compound each other and can do a survivor so much harm, even though both rightly belong to the abusers and not to us.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#132525 - 08/30/06 07:45 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
Olaf Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 5
Loc: New York City
Hi everyone,

Just got through Ken's article that he links to above. Tried before but didn't get through it. It's really useful. I think that I "act in" to a scary degree. My therapist (ever so gently) pointed out that it's not typical behavior that when you're frustrated with your wife you hit yourself on the head with a handy telephone. Most people yell at their wives instead. Put that way, it makes sense.

September is a really stressful time at work for me and I've really hit lows in a lot of Septembers for being disassociated and doing scary things. Yesterday was my last day off and alone before the big event starts and I did the whole behavior. I throw away my email accounts and photos every time, so I have to start from scratch, and I shot a bunch of photos and other getting-ready activities and then I set up a meeting with a guy. The usual submissive-hurt me kind of thing. I was ready to walk out the door and I couldn't do it. I emailed him and told him that something had come up at work and I had to bail. He got really angry--surprise, he enjoys beating up and aggressively fucking guys that look like boys--and wouldn't accept my apology. I mean, I understand, I cost him time and everything. What a mess. I don't think he can track me down from an anonymous posting. I guess he could do something with my picture. I better not run for office. That's a joke.

I'm so ashamed. I can't believe I did this again. I can't believe I haven't gotten busted by my wife. If she had a keystroke tracker on either one of the computers I'd be totally screwed, game over.

Anyway, I thought Ken's essay was useful. I used to have some positive intervention behaviors that I'd plan for days that I'd be home alone--go to museums, movies, sit in cafes and read, keep moving. But we got a dog, my wife got a dog. The dog has to be walked. This prevents me from spending the day doing something to keep my mind off it--when I'm home, work can't distract me, I have to do the numbing thing, drinking or video games or something to try to keep from jumping into this sexual self-destructive thing. It's such a tiny, stupid thing. A seventeen-pound dog, and I'm letting it knock me off my stride. I mean, any excuse, anything, and I slide back into this stuff. I could so easily figure out a dozen "intervention" type behaviors to replace what I did before. I guess. I should figure it out.

Thanks. I appreciate everybody's posts. I really appreciate everything you've had to say, Sunny. None of this is easy.

Olaf.


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#132526 - 08/31/06 06:14 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
sounds to me like you made a huge big step. You stopped a sexual encounter after you had already decided to go through with it. You stopped it before it started---that takes incredible will power.

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#132527 - 09/10/06 08:00 PM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
Olaf Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 5
Loc: New York City
Hi Scott,

Thanks. That doesn't feel incredibly valid to me right now, but I hear what you're saying at least. I'm still winning this particular struggle but not by much.

Olaf


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#132528 - 09/11/06 03:15 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
Who cares by how much you're winning it? One millimeter ahead of the battle is all you can ask for. You're doing great if you're still coming here and haven't fallen off the wagon yet. Keep it up. Stay connected. Stay safe. Be kind to yourself.
you are so not alone.
Paul


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#132529 - 09/22/06 01:39 AM Re: Acting Out (triggers)
justtired Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/21/06
Posts: 23
Loc: San Antonio Texas
I felt the exact same way. I feel so shameful. I sleep with a guy and then I can't even remember most of it.

Then I ran into an old friend, and for some awful reason we did it. Now I feel horrible.

Why is it so hard to blame the attacker and not ourselves?


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