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#132344 - 05/11/06 04:09 PM Frustration...sort of
Bobby Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1287
Loc: Arizona
I would like to be straight or gay. I don't really care which. I would just like to "be" something. I forget that I'm not. When I was "in the closet" I could never forget. Life was about being "in the closet". It was all about being gay and not having anyone find out that I was gay. But I never had gay sex. Wouldn't you think that, if I was in the closet for 35 years, I'd have ventured out to have sex maybe once? So, now I'm out of the closet. Big deal. I still don't have gay sex. I'm married...and I still enjoy sex with my wife....go figure. So am I bi? No. I'm not bi. This I know. I think I'm a gay man who doesn't have sex with other men and still has sex with his wife and may never have sex with another man. This does not fit any profile that I'm aware of. I am a "mesexual". I am unique.

Now, most days I don't mind being unique. I have settled into a nice little routine which suits me just fine. But then, at work, I will say something that has the word "straight" in it and someone will give me a knowing look or a little wink, and I'll know that I've been categorized one more time. I want to say, "Look, I know you want to squeeze me into your little box that says 'gay', but, really, I don't fit there." But I don't. I just smile at the little joke we share and understand that the really accepting and open person who just winked at me about my homosexuality really isn't as accepting and open as she thinks she is, or she wouldn't have picked up on my saying "straight" and winked at me.

I would really rather be straight. So much easier. No ashamed sisters to deal with. No "supposedly" close friends to lose. No kids to tell you that God has given you a trial and it's up to you to decide how you will deal with this trial. Yeah, I'd rather be straight. But then there are the cute guys. You know, the ones that turn your head? The ones that hit you in your gut before you realize you've been hit? Those guys. I like that. I like that being hit in the gut like that and thinking "Holy shit, was he cute or what?" That's nice. But, at the same time, I know I would never act on those feelings. I know that, if that same cute guy would come over to me and take off all of his clothes and say "Your place or mine?", that I would take off running as fast as I could, like a little boy running to his mother, and only look up when I thought I was safe.

My fantasy life is gay. The guy I am in my fantasies is great. He knows exactly what he wants and goes for it. Only, he's not me....exactly. I don't know who he is, or why he looks at what he does, or needs to look at what he does. But, at least he knows who he is.
If life wasn't so this or that, I'd be fine. I'd just be me, and my sexuality would be mine and I wouldn't be embarrassed or worried or any of that stuff. I'd just have the kind of sexuality I have. I didn't choose it. I didn't pick it out of a list of sexual possibilities. I just have to deal with it.

Even my t won't tell me what I am....just keeps talking about this continuum shit and that I might be here or I might be there and that we aren't even at the same place on the continuum for our whole lives. I think I'm the Fred Astaire of the continuum. I tap dance up and down it daily. I just want it all to stop. I just want my dick to say, "That is what I want, now go out and find me some." not "Well, let me see, I think maybe....no, no, how about....no, not that either...if I weren't so scared, I'd probably...oh, hell, just turn on the computer."

Someday I'd like to sing "I did it my way", but first I've gotta figure out just what "my way" happens to be. Sheesh. Bobby

_________________________
I'm healing now, and I wasn't sure I would.




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#132345 - 05/11/06 04:31 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
bobby ,how about just being a kind and caring person who always helps anyone he can ,to me its about who you are not what kind of sex you want or dont want ,sex is something we do not who we are ,i think that you are the best bobby possible ,gay or straight who cares ,its bobby that helps me ,its bobby that makes me feel worth it instead of worthless,its bobby who talks to me when all i want to do is curl up and die ,.i like you either way .your friend adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#132346 - 05/11/06 08:38 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Bobby,

I couldn't have said it any better than Adam, so I won't try. I'll just say "see above".

Having just said that, I'd like to add that I know how you feel. You are NOT alone.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#132347 - 05/11/06 11:18 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Bobby,

I think society makes many unreasonable demands of people, and this "straight" or "gay" thing is right up there on the list. It's only when we view sexuality as either this or that, as if they are and must be opposites all the time, that these serious problems arise.

You are married and happy being faithful to your wife. You see an attractive guy and he turns your head. Fine. You are Bobby and what else matters?

If you feel confused on this issue, you certainly aren't alone. What separates you out from others is the courage and integrity with which you talk about it.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#132348 - 05/12/06 08:43 AM Re: Frustration...sort of
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Bobby, just consider me the ditto guy today.
Quote:
If you feel confused on this issue, you certainly aren't alone. What separates you out from others is the courage and integrity with which you talk about it.
I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment. That is one of the things that makes me look up to you on this site.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#132349 - 05/12/06 03:38 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Dear Bobbie,
I have a rueful smile on my face at the moment, because I recognize a lot of myself in your post.
--
Unfortunately, I also have concluded that the "either/or" paradigm is hopelessly inadequate to describe human sexuality. If I had a magic wand, I'd zap you to which ever end of the Kinsey scale you wished to inhabit. Then, perhaps, I'd zap myself. But, for now, my wand is in the repair shop and I guess we'll just have to tough it out awhile longer.
Wish I could be more help. Love ya!
george of kent

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#132350 - 05/13/06 01:04 AM Re: Frustration...sort of
Russ2 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 77
Hi Bobby. Thanks for posting about your frustration. As survivors of childhood sexual abuse, it seems that understanding our true sexuality is often difficult, and may take a considerable amount of time.

Perhaps you've noticed upon a review of your post that the answers are right there, almost plain as day. You were able to say firmly that you are not bisexual. It seems that a heterosexual orientation may also be ruled out -- as evidenced by your ability to boldly articulate the same-sex attraction you feel, all the while saying nothing about being sexually attracted to women.

It is too bad that your therapist hasn't been more helpful with respect to this matter. Unfortunately, many therapists are quite risk-averse, and prefer to receive payment for simply their listening services. I am not your therapist, so I will tell you what I think is going on based upon what you've said so far.

Many gay men carry around a huge amount of internalized homophobia, often on a subconscious level. Such feelings are nothing more than fear. It is not at all unreasonable for a traditionally married gay man to be afraid of becoming sexually active with another man -- especially if he was sexually abused as a child.

A common misunderstanding about sexual orientation is that it is about behavior. Being gay has nothing to do with one's actions; it isn't about the gender of the person with whom we have sexual relations. Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. Moreover, an individual may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors.

I agree with your therapist that a continuum of sexuality exists, but you appear to know with a degree of clarity at which end you belong. I don't think you seem all that confused about it anymore -- couldn't this frustration be about something else?

Take care,
Russ


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#132351 - 05/13/06 05:24 AM Re: Frustration...sort of
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
Bobby,

You are not alone, me too. I am also confused. The best sex on the planet happens between me and my wife. Nobody could possibly have it better than we do. That being said, you would think that my thoughts would be only of her. When I fantasize however, it is about having sex with a man. There are men who turn my head. I have tried acting on my fantasies and have found that the reality is not near as good as the fantasy. Sex with my wife on the other hand just keeps getting better and better. There was a time when I could have written your post, it was me. Am I gay? Am I straight? Am I somewhere inbetween? Frankly my friend, at this point in my life I don't give a damn.

I love my wife and will never step out on her again. Our love live is fantastic. Do men still turn my head? Yes. Hope this helps.

Love ya

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#132352 - 05/13/06 05:48 AM Re: Frustration...sort of
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Bobby - I know there are many guys out there that struggle with and ask the questions with which you started this thread. I've met several and know of others. I too recommend the validity of the continum. I haven't met any truly 100% gay or straight guys. Most of us would feel comfortable with a label one way or the other but I don't think it could ever be that easy. BTW I agree that the physical sex act is the not the full criteria for defining gay/straight. My nephew is in a "gay marriage" for the last 7 years. As I observe him in that relationship, there is not a great difference relationally and role wise between two same-sex marriages than two opposite-sex marriages. The feelings I have for my wife, he has and expresses for his partner too. What I say about my wife, he says similarly about his life partner. NOW FOR FANTASIES! The hardest struggling guys with sexual orientation are those who have never acted on their homosexual impulses. They can only imagine gay sexual experiences in their minds eye. I doubt you imagine your fantasy guy farting, smelling bad at times, being unco-operative or having a headache...all that does occur in 'real life'. Those who have acted on their impulses usually have a more realistic idea of the pos and neg of this intimacy.
I hope this is useful for you!

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#132353 - 05/14/06 11:52 AM Re: Frustration...sort of
sophiesdad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 462
Loc: Florida
Bobby:

I loved your analogy of being the "Fred Astaire" tap dancing through the continuum! Move over, 'cause I need to join in the line dance!

As others have so eloquently said, you aren't alone and unfortunately, our society loves to put people into neat little boxes with labels on them. I think this is because we see the uncertainty of life and the seemingly disorganized universe and we have to put everything into order to make sense to us.

I, too, sometimes feel that I have properly labeled myself and am comfortable in my spot on the continuum and then life kicks me in the stomach. I come in contact with someone who makes me go weak in the knees and I find myself fumbling for words in a conversation. Then I spend the next 10 days beating myself up about my feelings and desires. The only word that defines it appropriately for me is "angst". I feel torn, confused, and angry that I have been put in this position in life.

I don't worry so much anymore about what other people think because my boss once told me something very wise - "Regardless of how you act or what you tell others, they will continue to judge you on their own terms and form their own ideas about who and what you are. So it is better to just be yourself rather than try to change others' opinions of you." This is so true and applies to everything in life - not just sexuality.

I have a wife who knows what I am about, knows my struggle and still accepts and loves me for who I am. Isn't it odd that I can't do the same for myself?

so, I guess that I'm saying that I understand that it's so much easier said than done when we all speak of accepting ourselves. It's all too easy to say - OK, accept the desires and fantasies for what they are. Even though you may not act on them, it's still difficult not to beat yourself up for thinking them in the first place, right?

I think that the one comfort that I personally can take in this whole thing is that I am not alone - I'm not a freak of nature. I realize that there are thousands of other men out there who feel just the same way. It makes that bitter pill just a little easier to swallow.

And as for those who have the "knowing winks"... my martial arts teacher once told me that in life there are eagles and monkeys. The world is full of the monkeys who stay stuck on the ground mired in their own little worlds. Those of us who aspire to become eagles are constantly being attacked and pulled down by the monkeys who wish to drag us back down to their world. Don't let those people drag you down... I have learned to say in the back of my mind, "If you only knew my deepest thoughts and desires - they would shock the hell out of you." And I smile right back at them while laughing uncontrollably inside.

I guess that some of this comes with age - I have no idea how old you are, but having almost reached half a century, I have decided that I don't give a **it what people think of me anymore - I am me - take it or leave it. I concentrate on those people who stand by my side and leave the others in the dust. I just need to be able to do the same acceptance of myself - maybe in the next 1/2 century!

Do I make any sense?

SD

_________________________
There are no unresolved issues - they just didn't resolve themselves the way we would have liked. "Grinder and Bandler - Neuro-Linguistic Programming"

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#132354 - 05/16/06 05:06 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
Bobby Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1287
Loc: Arizona
Thanks, all of you for you honesty and your willingness to share. It's an on-going problem that I just needed to talk about, and you can't just walk up to someone and launch off into that one. You could have just blown the whole thing off as a rant, but you didn't. That means a lot to me. Bobby

_________________________
I'm healing now, and I wasn't sure I would.




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#132355 - 05/16/06 05:33 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Bobby,

I didn't see your post as a rant, but you know what your remark reminded me of? Even a rant gets a caring response here. How cool is that?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#132356 - 05/17/06 06:03 AM Re: Frustration...sort of
sophiesdad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 462
Loc: Florida
Bobby:

Nor did I read it as a rant - you are struggling with an issue that hurts to the very core of your being. Just know that we are all here for you and ready to listen all the time.


SD

_________________________
There are no unresolved issues - they just didn't resolve themselves the way we would have liked. "Grinder and Bandler - Neuro-Linguistic Programming"

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#132357 - 05/18/06 02:22 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
Very good thread, Bobby, with many insightful responses. Thanks for putting this out here; gave me some new ideas to chew on. Hope it was also helpful for you.
Much love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#132358 - 05/18/06 06:24 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
Heartonfire Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Montreal Canada
Hi Bobby et al,

I am moved by the honesty and support at this message board. I am a new member, joining last night, while having been listening for months, from my dark closet of same sex longings and abuse memories.
I read this thread with rapture and sighs, as I also have been asking myself two key questions: 1) am I straight or gay or bi? and 2) Was I Really abused by my dad? Like really, really? or was it just homophobia, absorbtionof his transfered feelings of love and hate for me...etc...some rationalization of painful fragmented memories...ets. etc...
After making some key decisions lately and reading the posts above, I finally saw these two questions as two seperate and distinct questions, perhaps many of us have to answer, which are linked yet seperate, for me at last.
I am making a distinction for myself about my attractions.
YES!!! My head turns when I see a man who attracts me, my balls get tingly and my face flushes sometimes. Whooooahh! This IS Risky to accept, because of that terrible disease, called homophobia, which is going around, I happen to have caught once a long time ago, and which has been dormant in me like some other viruses. Time to flush it out, clear it out and kill it for good. It is a gift to feel attraction and passion in life, as long as the action in response doesn't hurt any one! YES!!! I also feel attracted to women. Sometimes, this attraction is even more closeted. I grew up Catholicized, spiritualized, repressing my whole sex drive till later in life, and boy sometimes I just want to rip my girlfriend's closthes right off and I leer at women I work with with whom I am asked to be professional, but those breast bring out a beast inside... and my mind ignores the personality... ARRRR!
Luckily, I have been making friends who are gay, some survivor,s, and a friend who is bi and getting married. It has been mind blowing to have the later make jokes openly about his attractions to men all the while standing with and loving his fiancee with passion and deep respect and love.
Many a man and woman have tried to figure me out, with my permission to label, and now I claim my own sexuality, as it is... I AM a BISEXUAL MAN! Meaning to me that I am attracted physically, emotionally and sexually to men and women.
Now the question of choice for me is... who do I love and cherish and wish to make love to and continue my life path walking closely with... It is my girlfriend, whose value I finally recognize and who I have hurt and abandonned and finally returned to, as my whole self and....
She loves me right back. (something I wish for all of us) She chooses me, even though scarred and scared and wanning in attractions sometimes, she wants to be with me, loves me as I am and I am blessed so. Love is a choice. To receive it and to give it. It is trully liberating. Before I made this choice, on Saturday, I was consumed with: me, single-minded pleasure desire no one else but me, revenge for abuse, hate, fear, keep safe keep them far, use and take and move on...
As for question 2: I now see that my father having seduced and raped me repeatedly had an impact on my self-worth, my awareness of choice and personal freedom, and desire to hold back my love (to men and women). It did not and does not determine my sexuality and the depth of love I can choose to express based on all of my sum attractions. Sexual abuse, I believe, is about betrayal and selfish forms of gratification, abuse is only about power, control, and compulsive gratification. It hurt me so much because he was only consumed with himself, unable to recognize my desires for safety, respectful affection, and self-mastery. The seduction was a game to satisfy one. Love is a way of being which satisfies all on the deepest level. Though embracing love may frustrate immediate urges to release and control, it melts them away and brings peace. I choose love and send it to all of you.
Thank you for your honesty, courage, and support.

DJJ

_________________________
Heart on Fire

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#132359 - 05/18/06 08:33 PM Re: Frustration...sort of
Bobby Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1287
Loc: Arizona
DJJ, Thanks. The responses to this thread have been amazing and thoughtful. Yours is no exception. I find myself reading them all again as each new one is posted. Bobby

_________________________
I'm healing now, and I wasn't sure I would.




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