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#13222 - 04/30/03 11:26 PM Male Authority Figures
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Why is it I have so much trouble dealing with male authority figures compared to female ones?

Is it becuz I'm not man enuf, as my female & male perps going up tried to tell me?

No it's becuz there weren't men enuf.

During my childhood & adolescent years, men were rarely around & when they were they were abusive.

Wome were usually abusive too, yes, but they were always around.

So I learned to deal with women, but not men. At least when it comes to authority figures, people in power over me as opposed to peers.

Even as an adult, my line of work & my path in life has not led me to a lot of times I've had to really deal with male authorities. When I have it has generally not gone too well.

Within the last week, I've had confrontations with
three different male authority figures. Two are related to my work as a water aerobics instructor,
one to my certification for the same.

The problem may have something to do with the fact
that my manhood has already taken another hit in the last week or so, as I've come to the full realization my mother tried to make me gay to keep
another woman besides herself from ever having me.
However this has also helped me realize more fully
why I have so much trouble being intimate with women, or with men, in any healthy way. Still its discouraging when it comes to thinking what to actually do about this.

What has happened is that I've not reacted particularly well to these three recent confrontations with male authorities. And I've realized more than ever that I never have. Again I do better understand why, but that doesn't take away the pain, the numbing pain.

Basically these confrontations have just contributed, along with other recent realities (increase of my chronic pain due to a bug) & revelations (like some already mentioned), to numbing me into inaction, putting me back into my childhood freeze response.

Specifically, I've already given up getting certified, at least thru my current course which dropping seems the best course of action (it still feels like inaction, as opposed to calling the Better Business Bureau or something).

I'm even considering not instructing anymore, which would be tough becuz I can't afford fitness center membership & I need the exercise; my condition limits me to water exercise. Long story: basically its just yet another case of one person having more rights than a group of people for who knows what stupid reasons. Just like perps. That's why I feel abused again. Irrational yes. But this isn't about rational is it?

Obviously this is all stuff I need to & will talk with my T about tomorrow.

Meanwhile you lucky guys I'm venting it here.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#13223 - 04/30/03 11:40 PM Re: Male Authority Figures
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
I have problems with both male and female authority figures, but I think this is because of the attack on my ability to trust. Because of both the verbal abuse by my father and sexual abuse by others, I can never relax because in my experience things can turn ugly or terrifying quickly and with out notice. I always used to conclude that my supervisors were out to exploit me or out to get me. At this point I many times directed anger toward them which leads them to return hostility, and my fears become self fulfilling prophecies.

Peace
MO Healing


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#13224 - 04/30/03 11:48 PM Re: Male Authority Figures
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
I don't know if it's the same, but growing up I had absolutely no respect for anyone with supposed power over me. I mistrusted them, disobeyed them, and went out of my way to torment them even if they had not done anything to me. Maybe it was a survival response so that I would not be victimized again. (It didn't work. Actually, it just got me in more trouble.) After I went to prison my views changed and now I'm terrified of anyone with authority, especially police. I guess I went from one end of the spectrum straight to the other. I would really rather be in the middle somewhere.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#13225 - 05/01/03 10:52 AM Re: Male Authority Figures
randy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa
Same thing here Victor.
I have always gotten along well with female supervisors and less so than men.
However as my shrink shrewdly pointed out.
she said" you seem to have more of a problem with men who abuse their supervisory or authoritarian positions for their own purposes and play favorites"
She was mostly right.


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#13226 - 05/01/03 12:09 PM Re: Male Authority Figures
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Victor:

I have had trouble with authority ever since I was a child. Even if I think that someone is trying to exercize it when they are not. I become totally irrational and the worst thing is that ultimately I hurt myself more than anyone else. I cut of my nose to spite my face.
Quote:
Specifically, I've already given up getting certified, at least thru my current course which dropping seems the best course of action (it still feels like inaction, as opposed to calling the Better Business Bureau or something).

I'm even considering not instructing anymore, which would be tough becuz I can't afford fitness center membership & I need the exercise; my condition limits me to water exercise. Long story: basically its just yet another case of one person having more rights than a group of people for who knows what stupid reasons. Just like perps. That's why I feel abused again. Irrational yes. But this isn't about rational is it?
Think about this Victor. This is the comfort zone of coping that we are all so familiar with. How easy it is to relax in it and fall back. And that for myself is just another example when I do it of giving back some advantage to those assholes I had the misfortune to meet (PERPS).Makes me sick when I do it.
I have a bit of a different attitude now. I take a deep breath and ask mysel a really simple question. I three hours or one or a hundred days will it really matter what has just happened. Truthfully the answer is no if I do not react in my totally predictable fashion that I am comfortable with.
I know where you are coming from Victor. Think of you monikor and why you chose it. It might just help.
You are a great individual as I have said before and too good I bet as a water aerobics instructor to let the insensitivity of authority figures and your own comfort one keep you from doing what you like best. And that my brother wolf is helping others and yourself. Think about it ok.
With Affection
Mike

AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOO

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#13227 - 05/01/03 07:09 PM Re: Male Authority Figures
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Quote:
I become totally irrational and the worst thing is that ultimately I hurt myself more than anyone else. I cut of my nose to spite my face.
I've made a career out of doing this Mike, no - let me change that, I've ruined a career doing that.
In 25 years at the same job I have made zero progress, in fact I've gone backwards.

I've rowed with bosses and managers, jumped a desk to get at one ( no witness' luckily ) and generally been an arsehole.

And the only manager I have ever respected was a woman, and she wasn't a direct manager over me unforunately.

I'm better than I was, but working for a very large utility company like I do there does tend to be a culture of people arse licking their way into promotion, and my immediate managers have both done that. And they're a pair of little shits.

I have a meeting with one tommorrow, and I'm planning on telling him he's a little shit.
But I do it politely now, I don't rant and rave like I used to. I get so much more pleasure from it as well.

I guess I still have authority problems....

Dave
\:D

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#13228 - 05/01/03 08:02 PM Re: Male Authority Figures
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Lloyd:
I like it when you say politely.

Gotta tell you I ruined the chance of being a vice president of a large Canadian Bank and ultimatetly quit after 27 odd years. I just could not a would not accept any authority.

I have great job now and enjoy what I am doing. And when someone in authority starts to use it in what I think is an inappropriate manner I smile and agree with them completely. God you should see their faces. They dont know whether I am telling the truth or being sarcastic and they are too afraid to suggest it. I get a real gut tingle every time I do it.

I have learned to take authority from someone I respect. It has been difficult and still is and once in a while I screw up. But I am good at that and can live with that particular wart.

You brother wolf

Mike

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#13229 - 05/01/03 09:34 PM Re: Male Authority Figures
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
I don't know if it's the same, but growing up I had absolutely no respect for anyone with supposed power over me. I mistrusted them, disobeyed them, and went out of my way to torment them even if they had not done anything to me.
Josh,

That's how I went about it. I don't know if it's connected to abuse or not in my case. I may have inherited it and passed it on. One of my kids is having trouble in school, "borderline oppositional defiant disorder." I always thought it was a "healthy lack of respect for authority" and I didn't want to crush it.

'Course, I did get kicked out of school. Maybe I should look harder at not making that the family tradition.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#13230 - 05/02/03 12:14 AM Re: Male Authority Figures
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
At this point I many times directed anger toward them which leads them to return hostility, and my fears become self fulfilling prophecies.
Mo:

Pretty much what my T told me today--and not for the first time. \:o :rolleyes:

Josh:

I very much relate to your entire post. Thanks for your empathetic experience sharing. I'm still trying to find the balance, that's for sure.

Randy:

I also very much relate to your post. Wise words there from your shrink. I have a very strong to the point of hyperactive sense of justice. Problem is, my sense of justice is far from perfect; I'm not God. I'm sure you're all grateful
I shared that with you, and even more grateful that I'm not. Well, I am too; I can hardly handle my own life.

Quote:
I have had trouble with authority ever since I was a child. Even if I think that someone is trying to exercize it when they are not. I become totally irrational and the worst thing is that ultimately I hurt myself more than anyone else. I cut of my nose to spite my face.
Mike:

Ditto. And ouch!

Thank you brother wolf, you are right. I still think it best not to get certified thru the course I'm dropping. But I will definitely continue to teach water aerobics indefinitely. And hopefully get certified with a real outfit, after more careful investigation, soon.

Mike, you are the wolf!

Dave:

Maybe we have authority problems.

And maybe the authorities are the problems!

Joe:

Honestly that's a tough call.

No you don't want to make getting kicked out of school a family tradition.

I tried to but I failed. I got suspended from school more than once. My daughters were A students & hated to miss a day. Where did I go wrong? \:D

Seriously, on the other hand, there is such a thing as "healthy lack of respect for authority."
For many of us it was a survival tool of necessity
growing up. And it's one survival tool that can still be handy now if used properly. Some authorities are just not to be trusted. If I learned nothing else from being abused I sure learned that.

Thanks fellow wolves for all the great & helpful responses!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#13231 - 05/02/03 08:47 PM Re: Male Authority Figures
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I had a very 'productive' meeting with my managers this morning, I didn't curse, swear or lose my temper once. I just sat there and told them they were a pair of power crazy control freaks, only politely.
No, I think I actually said that. \:D
But we're having new machine tools in our workshop so it's being re painted and tidied up, and 'Dumb and Dumber' are telling us what to put where, and how to do arrange our workshop. They're treating us like village idiots.
Not any more they ain't. The machines go where WE want them.

Mike, my brother did about a hundred years with the R.B.C. until the job stressed him out, he's out now and loving every minute of it.
His depression and stress was entirely down to the way big companies treat people like idiots in the mad rush for accountability.
I've done about 5 hours actual work this week but that's ok because I fill in the required paperwork ( at least 1 1/2 hours a day ) and pass it onto the legions of clerks that process it all. They pass the figures onto a kid with a degree in colouring in who produces a graph that nobody understands but goes uphill and 'proves' we are more productive !
It might sound good to do so little, but it can't last, there's work that needs to be done so what will happen in the future ?
The boredome is terrible, I read endlessly, we play table tennis and drown in coffee.

It's slightly off topic I know, but this kind of work culture produces some terrible effects, and for people like us with existing problems it's even worse.
I saw a young lad today who'd worked with me since he was 16, he's 26 now and just left the company to become a sales engineer for a good company.
The difference in him is incredible, he looks better and he's lost the defeatist "fuck it" attitude that we all have.
Depression is already a big problem within our company, and the directors wonder why. They honestly do - they sent a questionaire about stress and depression around last year sometime. But has anything been followed up, has anything changed ?
Has it hell !

I know this is the kind of thing that stresses 'normal' people, my brother is a classic example, for us, and other people with problems this is a nightmare.

Crap employers are my favourite rant..... :rolleyes:

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#13232 - 05/03/03 12:03 AM Re: Male Authority Figures
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Supposedly... Taken from ACTUAL
FEDERAL EMPLOYEE JOB EVALUATION SHEETS:

(The ones with stars are some of my favorites)


*"Since my last report, this employee has reached rock bottom and has started to dig."*

*"His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid curiosity."*

*"I would not allow this employee to breed."*

"This employee is really not so much of a has-been, but more of a definite won't be."

*"Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a rat in a trap."*

"When she opens her mouth, it seems that it is only to change feet."

"He would be out of his depth in a parking lot puddle."

*"This young lady has delusions of adequacy."*

"He sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them."

***"This employee is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot."*** \:D

**"This employee should go far, and the sooner he starts, the better."**

*"Got a full 6-pack, but lacks the plastic thing to hold it all together."*

"A gross ignoramus -- 144 times worse than an ordinary ignoramus."

"He doesn't have ulcers, he's a carrier."

"I would like to go hunting with him sometime."

"He's been working with glue too much."

"He would argue with a signpost."

"He has a knack for making strangers immediately."

"He brings a lot of joy whenever he leaves the room."

*"When his I.Q. reaches 50 we should sell."*

*"If you see two people talking and one looks bored, he's the other one."*

*"A photographic memory but with the lens cover glued on."*

**"A prime candidate for natural deselection."**

"Donated his brain to science before he was done using it."

*"Gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train isn't coming."*

*"Has two brains: one is lost and the other is out looking for it."*

"If he were any more stupid, he'd have to be watered twice a week."

*"If you give him a penny for his thoughts, you'd get change."*

"If you stand close enough to him, you can hear the ocean."

**"It's hard to believe that he beat out 1,000,000 other sperm."**

"One neuron short of a synapse."

"Some drink from the fountain of knowledge; he only gargled."

*"Takes him 1 1/2 hours to watch 60 minutes."*

**"The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead."**

I'll add a few:

"His rent's due & the eviction notice is on the way."

"His elevator doesn't reach the top floor."

"He's one banana short of a bunch."

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#13233 - 05/03/03 12:46 AM Re: Male Authority Figures
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Vic,
Quote:
***"This employee is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot."***
That was my favorite one too!

Dave,
It seems to me the young lad you speak of is a classic example of what it takes to succeed in life. I mean that sometimes you have to realize how the people you associate yourself with effects your life. I know that when my self-esteem gets low I'm more likely to hang out with people who I would rather not be near. And as a survivor low self-esteem is always a cronic problem. So sometimes you have to make a concious decision to get away from certain situations or people before it starts to drag you down.
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#13234 - 05/03/03 07:17 PM Re: Male Authority Figures
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
mike
that's a good point, I've been in this job for 25 years - I like the basic job.

But I've always had trouble with authority and been argumentitive, and until I started my recovery I would just argue and bitch, carry on and forget it until the next argument. Usually one I would create.

But now I've become aware of my capabilities, and have freed my mind of a huge amount of crap so I am beginning to think clearly, I find that the stuff I used to argue and rage about just pisses me off and I don't react to it.
Instead I get bitter and angry that I am being managed by idiots. It might sound like a typical workers beef I know, but the first job I had after my apprenticship finished was as assistant manager of a quality control department with 8 men under me. I know I can do the damn job.

Now I'm frustrated because my pension and company shares have handcuffed me to the job and I have no chance of promotion any more.
It's a by product of my recovery, I'm now aware of the hole I dug myself into when my disfunctional behaviour controlled me.

And because of that I persuaded the young lad I'd help train to leave.
I'd hate to think that someone could end up trapped anywhere, and he was at risk of that.
Some might say I had no right to do that ( I certainly wasn't the only one ) but I don't think I was telling him, just pointing out a point of view arrived at through my set of experiences.
He's also thanked me for helping him make the choice, and that was a great feeling for me.

If he'd stayed we'd have dragged him down ( the old timers like me ! ) to our level of "who gives a shit ?"

I have made a concious decision to make my life outside of work and to try and not let it bother me.
I'm slowly succeeding and my other interests are so much more important to me now, as are the people I have moved on to meet outside.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#13235 - 05/04/03 01:52 AM Re: Male Authority Figures
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
This topic cracks me up. My Dad always said I was the most difficult person who ever lived. Even though I read in a verbal abuse book that is a textbook thing to say to someone like me I think it may be true.

;\) He rightly said that anyone who ever argues with me wants to kill themselves after ten minutes.

It makes me feel better to know my difficult disposition got me away from 2 perp attempts.

Authority Song
John Cougar Mellencamp

They like to get you in a compromising position
They like to get you there and smile in your face
They think they're so cute when they got you in that condition
Well I think it's a total disgrace

CHORUS:

I fight authority, Authority always wins
I fight authority, Authority always wins
;\) I been doing it since I was a young kid
;\) I come out grinnin'
I fight authority, Authority always wins

So I call up my preacher
I say, "Give me strength for Round 5."
He said , "You don't need no strength, you need to grow up son."
I said, "Growing up leads to growing old and then to dying
"And dying to me don't sound like all that much fun."

:|| CHORUS

Oh no oh no
I fight authority Authority always wins

:|| CHORUS


Peace
MO Healing


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#13236 - 05/04/03 02:13 AM Re: Male Authority Figures
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Dave,
I got a lot of pleasure out of reading your post. Though, I'm sure why.
Quote:
But now I've become aware of my capabilities, and have freed my mind of a huge amount of crap so I am beginning to think clearly,
Maybe that's what I enjoyed.

I also think you'll make a good councelor when the time comes.
Quote:
He's also thanked me for helping him make the choice, and that was a great feeling for me.
That's pretty cool.

mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#13237 - 05/04/03 09:51 AM Re: Male Authority Figures
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Mo, that song reminds me of this one:

I Shot The Sheriff
Eric Clapton

I shot the sheriff but I did not shoot the deputy.
I shot the sheriff but I did not shoot the deputy.

All around in my home town
they're trying to track me down.
They say they want to bring me in guilty
for the killing of a deputy,
for the life of a deputy.
But I say

I shot the sheriff but I swear it was in self defence.
I shot the sheriff and they say it is a capital offence.

Sheriff John Brown always hated me,
for what I don't know.
Every time that I plant a seed
he said, 'Kill it before it grows'.
He said, 'Kill it before it grows'.
But I say

I shot the sheriff but I swear it was in self-defence.
I shot the sheriff but I swear it was in self-defence.

Freedom came my way one day
and I started out of town.
All of a sudden I see sheriff John Brown
aiming to shoot me down
so I shot, I shot him down.
But I say

I shot the sheriff but I did not shoot the deputy.

I shot the sheriff but I did not shoot the deputy.

Reflexes got the better of me
and what is to be, must be.
Every day the bucket goes to well
but one day the bottom will drop out,
yes, one day the bottom will drop out.
But I say

I shot the sheriff but I did not shoot the deputy.
I shot the sheriff but I did not shoot the deputy.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#13238 - 05/07/03 12:28 AM Re: Male Authority Figures
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
This could apply to male or female authority figures but here goes...

Giving More Than 100%?

> We have all been to those meetings where someone wants more than 100%.

> Well, here's how you do that. Here's how you can achieve 103%.

> First of all, here's a little math that might prove helpful in the future.

> How does one achieve 100% in LIFE?

> Begin by noting the following.

> IF:

> A = 1
> B = 2
> C = 3
> D = 4
> E = 5
> F = 6
> G = 7
> H = 8
> I = 9
> J = 10
> K = 11
> L = 12
> M = 13
> N = 14
> O = 15
> P = 16
> Q = 17
> R = 18
> S = 19
> T = 20
> U = 21
> V = 22
> W = 23
> X = 24
> Y = 25
> Z = 26
>
> Then:

> H A R D W O R K
> 8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = Only 98%

> Similarly,
>
> K N O W L E D G E
> 11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+5 = Only 96%
>
> But interesting (and as you'd expect),
> A T T I T U D E
> 1+20+20+9+20+21+4+5 = 100% ... This is how you achieve 100% in LIFE.
>
> Please NOTE:
> B U L L S H I T
> 2+21+12+12+19+8+9+20 = 103%
>
> So, now you know what all those high-priced consultants, upper management,and motivational speakers really mean when they want to exceed
> 100%!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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