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#132061 - 09/09/05 05:56 AM identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 14
I just don't get it. Sexual confusion.

I like women and think they are beautiful but I no longer want to have sex with them or insert it in them. I don't want to have sex with them. I'd rather play with myself and not let anyone else touch me. I don't feel masculine, I don't think women see me as sexy except my wife. I asked one gf once what she thought about living together without sex for a year to get to know each other and she said she wouldn't want to do it. So much for loving me and wanting to get to know me.

It only seems like men ever really hit on me.
It only seems like I have ever really been hit on by men. Very very few times by women that is and not much. If women find me sexy why don't they hit on me. Do I look damaged. Do I look like a target to these guys?

I like male genitals so what does that make me gay or bi or what? If I said I was gay that would end the confusion but most men I don't find remotley attractive.

I feel like a reject like part of me was taken away. I feel emotionally screwed.


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#132062 - 09/09/05 06:33 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
First let me welcome you to the site. As we say here, sorry you had the need to find this place, but we are glad you did.
Normally men hit on the women, or men hit on men. Women, wait to be hit on by men, and turn down any guy they don't want. Or women will hit on other women. That's the way it works in general. But when you have been screwed with, things get confusing. Again welcome aboard.
Take care,
Lostcowboy

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#132063 - 09/09/05 06:41 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
Dewey2k Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069
Lostone,

I'm glad you're here, but sorry you had to seek us out. Welcome to MaleSurvivor.

I am gay, so what I say may or may not ring true for you.

To me, labels are over-rated and do more harm than good. You are driven one way or another by feelings you have no control over. If that direction happens to be men, then yes, one label that might be used is 'gay'. If you like both, then you might be 'bi'. However, don't use these labels as straightjackets, no pun intended.

Being gay is not a result of SA. I would ask, however, why you think that you being damaged has marked you or has anything to do with why guys hit on you? People hit on people they find attractive in adult relationships, or that is how it is supposed to work.

Remember too, that men and women operate differently. Men are typically much more direct in their advances. Like you, I am generally hit on by men, but that may be because I don't notice it when women hit on me.

I don't think you're a reject, and yes, something was taken from you. You are in a good place to begin getting answers to your questions. Know this: you are not alone any more.


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#132064 - 09/09/05 03:59 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Dewey2k:
Lostone,

To me, labels are over-rated and do more harm than good. You are driven one way or another by feelings you have no control over. If that direction happens to be men, then yes, one label that might be used is 'gay'. If you like both, then you might be 'bi'. However, don't use these labels as straightjackets, no pun intended.

Being gay is not a result of SA. I would ask, however, why you think that you being damaged has marked you or has anything to do with why guys hit on you? People hit on people they find attractive in adult relationships, or that is how it is supposed to work.

Remember too, that men and women operate differently. Men are typically much more direct in their advances. Like you, I am generally hit on by men, but that may be because I don't notice it when women hit on me.

I don't think you're a reject, and yes, something was taken from you. You are in a good place to begin getting answers to your questions. Know this: you are not alone any more.
I am being driven more to have sex with men and let them have there way with me (submissive), that is how I feel. I am not keen on the way most men look body wise though. I love the look of women and the way their clothes look on them and all that feminine stuff high heels etc but I don't want to be agressive with them and I don't want to bare the stress of having to perform. If I can't get it up then they don't have sex even if I am crazy about them, the fear of failure sucks. I have no problem getting an erection playiing with myself or if a guy starts playing around with me and my dick. I am more interested in being the one going down on a guy than the other way around. In the past that is all any guys wanted to do go down on me. I have never dated guys and it was more about what the guy wanted than an equal thing.

Being told it is normal and doesn't mean that I am gay, for guys to play with each other and kissing guys on the lips is normal in Europe and that people in North America are too conservative/uptight. That is what I heard for years which didn't help things trying to figure out mys sexuality.

My ideal woman would have a nice penis so I could "see" when she was horny and when I had made her orgasm and she would be very feminine.

When I first started having sex with women at the age of about 20 I had lots of sex with women, I think I may have been doing it to prove that I was normal like everyone else I wasn't gay, who knows.

As far as why I think I look damaged, hmm good question. Because at lease in the past if someone looks and acts like they have lower self esteem then I would think they are more vulnerable, people can see that. But then again that really happened a lot more when i was younger. I guess most (a generalization) guys go after the cute younger guys and that is what I was.

I am very attracted to attention I get from men. I crave sexual attention. I don't get that from women not the same way. The men don't even have to be very good looking but if they have a nice penis that would be nice. I love sexual attention they give me when they say they love my body or hit on me at eg the pool or when I have gone to a Mens Sauna/bath house.

It is too bad in a way that women operate differently then men because if they were more direct that would be great. I want to be the one courted. If I go into a straight chat room on the web I don't get pvt msgs but the women get them all over the place from the guys. If I go to a gay chat room then I get hit on.

I love my wife but I don't want to be the agressive partner in bed, I wonder how many other guys are like that. I need her to perform oraly to get me arroused to her many times. I need to see she really wants me to be aroused and really wants my body. I can't see that she is horny like I can see with my eyes with a guy.


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#132065 - 09/09/05 05:06 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 129
Loc: earth
i dont have much advice to give on this topic but i think if you really want some time to just get to know your wife without sex, maybe its good to sit downa nd talk seriously about it. does she know you were abused and does she know why you wanted to take a year off? maybe if she understood your emotional needs better, she would be more open to the idea.

and as for girls not hitting on you, they probably do. girls are a lot more subtle than guys in that respect.

also, talk to your therapist about stuff like this. it totally helps.

_________________________
pUpPy

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#132066 - 09/10/05 01:25 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Regarding the interest/arousal to penises... here is a part of my book (in progress, not done yet).., (**Trigger Warning**)


“If I got an erection, had an orgasm or ejaculated during the abuse with a male, does it mean I’m gay?” This is a common response to sexual abuse. Because the victim’s penis is often stimulated by the abuser through touch, body contact, or exposure to sexually arousing material (pornography) the victim may believe that his erection betrayed him or is somehow an indicator that he is homosexual. While there is no research that confirms sexual abuse causes homosexuality, many victims believe that this experience, particularly if it is the first encounter of a sexual nature, results in becoming gay. Since nearly ten per cent of the population is homosexual or bisexual, there are a number of boys who, regardless of sexual abuse history, would have been “naturally” gay later on.

Sometimes the abuser will use the fear of homosexuality in a boy as a way to get him to go along with the abuse, justify the abuser’s actions, or to blackmail the youth into further sexual acts or prevent him from disclosing. Many abusers I’ve worked with have told their victims that the erection was “proof” the victim “wanted” the sexual contact, or that his erection was “proof” he was really gay. It has also been a blackmail tool to scare the boy into believing that people would know he was gay; as if that is worse than being abused or that the abuser molested the child.

Sometimes the victim becomes fixated on penises. Thoughts of performing oral sex on men or boys become the theme of sexual fantasies for some. For those who are truly homosexual, this is a natural source of arousal. For the male victim of same sex abuse, the penis may have a different meaning in the recurrent fantasies. What we find sexually stimulating can also be termed “erotic”.

If you are heterosexual, the thought of a woman’s body can be quite stimulating. Because our sexual conditioning may involve a focus on body parts, some men become particularly interested or aroused by breasts, or buttocks, or legs. Others become attracted to the vulva or vagina. Likewise, if you are gay, the arousal to a penis or man’s body can be stimulating for you. There is no “right” way on to be attracted.

I worked with a man years ago that was obsessed by legs, feet and women’s shoes. He reported that his mother used to come home from work and ask him to massage her legs and feet. She moaned as he worked her on legs and said things like, “Oh, you’re so good. That feels great, yes, yes!”

He said he remembered often being sexually aroused and during one massage session with her, when he was about 11, he experienced his first orgasm and ejaculation. He later associated sexual response with women’s legs, feet and shoes. The greatest turn on for him during sex was to kiss his partner’s feet and massage her legs. He was also a big consumer of pornographic magazines that cater to those attracted to legs, feet and shoes. He concluded that had he not been eroticized to his mother’s legs and feet as a boy, he would have had a more normal sexual attraction to a woman’s body and not fixated on her legs and feet.

“What if I think about penises a lot? Does that mean I’m gay?” Not necessarily. The man described above associated sexual pleasure with his mother’s (and later his partners’) legs, shoes and feet. If a boy experiences powerful sexual feelings while sucking his abuser’s penis, or having his own penis licked, or touching or being touched on the penis, he may make a similar connection. In addition, as teenagers discovering masturbation, we reinforce the pleasurable feelings with the sight and feel of our own penises. So, with a “normal” (that is, non-abusive) sexual history, we will have a neutral to good association with penises. They make us feel good, powerful, and alleviate boredom.

But when the sexual feelings are forced, unwanted, confusing, even painful, the association with the penis can be contaminated. Some men hate their penis because it “betrayed” them by getting erect in an abusive situation. Because the male abuser, particularly when there are negative feelings towards him, has a penis, some survivors may associate the penis with the hurt, betrayal, humiliation, shame, and guilt from the abuse. Think of the confusion one might feel from having these negative emotions about the abuse or abuser, and trying to feel good about one’s sexuality and penis.

One important consideration is to look at why you desire to act out sexually with other men. If the acts are reenactments of your abuse, it may be because the trauma is still unresolved and the sex is a way of returning to the trauma, perhaps hoping on an unconscious level, that this time you are not the helpless one. It may also be that you have been taught or conditioned that doing this behavior will bring closeness, acceptance or some other emotional need that you may not have in your life at the moment.

Ken


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#132067 - 09/12/05 02:53 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally posted by puppy:
i dont have much advice to give on this topic but i think if you really want some time to just get to know your wife without sex, maybe its good to sit downa nd talk seriously about it. does she know you were abused and does she know why you wanted to take a year off? maybe if she understood your emotional needs better, she would be more open to the idea.

and as for girls not hitting on you, they probably do. girls are a lot more subtle than guys in that respect.

also, talk to your therapist about stuff like this. it totally helps.
Well to straighten things out so to speak it was some years ago, it wasn't my wife I asked to go without sex for a year that I asked it was an ex gf (girlfriend).

I was trying to get back together with the ex girlfriend and talking about the idea of living together without sex for a year and being boyrfriend and girlfriend that went down like a led baloon.

I also had mentioned that I found the idea of going down on a guy interestings and penises interesting. She didn't say anything but it may have grossed her out evrytime I talked about it. Needless to say we didn't get back together and we didn't move in.

The ex girlfriend never knew about my past experience with being guys and I didn't really trust her emotionally with that. I was worried she would use that against me and maybe even tell other people too.

My wife knows about my past experience and she is the first person I ever talked to about it and my abuse. She is my best friend I trust not to hurt me emotionally with stuff that I tell her. We have sex only a few times a year but she of course would like more and she has heard me say on a number of occoasions I feel screwed up sexually and who knows maybe I am bi or maybe I am gay. She takes me as I am and loves me still. She is a true friend indeed!


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#132068 - 09/12/05 03:13 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Singer, LCSW:
Regarding the interest/arousal to penises... here is a part of my book (in progress, not done yet).., (**Trigger Warning**)


“If I got an erection, had an orgasm or ejaculated during the abuse with a male, does it mean I’m gay?” This is a common response to sexual abuse. Because the victim’s penis is often stimulated by the abuser through touch, body contact, or exposure to sexually arousing material (pornography) the victim may believe that his erection betrayed him or is somehow an indicator that he is homosexual.

SNIP SNIP Oroignal article snipped a lot shorter..

Ken
That was a long peice to read but very thoughtful.
I do think about myself getting the erection when I was stimulated and I must have wanted it. I do like getting bj's I had to put my mind somewhere else when I think back to it, to not think about it being a guy sucking me off. It was a one way streak mainly. I won't go into the details I don't want to trigger anyone in a bad way, but my first experience having my penis touched was when I was about 8 and it was a drunken adult who wanted to touch it and I was scared. He kissed it what I now know was trying to suck it. My next experience was with a guy friend at school and that was mutual and not abuse. Just a matter of I dare you to take off your clothes No sex no oral or anything, we just touched each others penis, we were just teens. I really liked him and he is the only one I could really trust because the next person who was in my life that I looked up and admired was an adult about 30 years older than me. That is what really screwed me up. Having sexual contact with adults as a kid and a teen. I want to go back to the day when there wasn't a 30 years older adult when I was with my friend and we were both virgins and innocent and nervous about dating girls our bodies etc and just a normal teen.

Yes I admit I have a fixation with penises. If they are so great to suck I want it to be my turn. I feel odd and I don't think it is normal but I am missing in my life the attention I got from men as a young guy and I feel if I let them touch me as an adult I would feel great to be appreciated again and I would be in control to say yes or no to who touches my body.

Still not sure about my sexuality, I am not very interested at all about sex with my wife. I masterbate. Masterbation is something that is pleasing that isn't for anyone else but myself.
Having said that I still feel screwed emotionally because after all that happened to me as a youth I crave the desire to be disired by men, I crave in a screwed up way to be sexually wanted and the one that pleases them. Screwed up I know....

Sometimes I think why did God create such a screwed up thing as sex, that people abuse, beat and hurt people in many ways to have it and yet it is supposed to be a loving and good thing.


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#165161 - 07/06/07 07:15 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: lostone]
Buernt Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5
Just trying to perform is a nightmare. Every moment you spend trying to be something you are not just reminds you there is a whole there. I know this from experience as well. Molestation that involves an adult who tries to get the child to engage in the acts of abuse is different than an adult that just abuses with no thought about the child's mind or soul. Sexual abuse that is like rape is horrible and can easily be hated. Sexual abuse that has all the context of care and attention can move deep into the abused persons soul and corrupt it like cancer.

I recovered from the abuse you've suffered by taking hold of who I am and pursuing a purpose. I am not what my abuser made me. Although I had an emptiness in me that he exploited, I will never find happiness, peace, or fulfillment by using what he taught me and inspired me towards to fill it. I am a man and I am capable of loving my wife. I am not trying to be a man and I am not trying to find out if I can love my wife.

This is the difference from trying to perform and be something and pursuing a goal. To try to be or perform something is to will oneself to do something one is incapable of doing. To pursue a goal, however, is to will oneself to move towards something. One is capable of using their will to hit notes on a keyboard. However, one is not capable of willing oneself to play a classical piano piece. If, however, one wills oneself to hit piano keys in a way to train the mind to recognize notes, the fingers to come under control of the mind, to engage the mind in rythm and timing he will over time be able to play music. By now people can probably see the analogy I am drawing, and a smart person could say, "But will the person love playing the piano?" My answer is another question, why did he want to play in the first place? Did he want to prove something to himself? Did he want to come to understand music by being able to repeat it on an instrument? His interest and love will only be as deep as his reason for pursuing it.

I was totally twisted from the time I was 4 years old. I had no attractions to females at all. The only female I have ever been really attracted to is my wife, and this took time and devotion and learning to let go of my pursuits that stood in the way.

I wanted to find my masculinity in another male. This was my pursuit. It resulted in me being torn apart. The only reason I chose not to be gay was the fact I hated what was done to me and that I wanted a wife and family. When I was a young child, I always saw a family as a beautiful thing. The person who corrupted my soul and got me to embrace it did not steal that love I had in me.

When I looked at my wife, I didn't reflect on what she wasn't. I didn't reflect on the fact I had no response to her. I chose to move. I willed myself to just move internally. When I saw her beauty I just let the little flame burn inside me. I didn't hate it for being pathetic and small. I didn't take a little seedling and mock and despise it in front of a mature tree. I appreciated it. I chose to bless it for what it was and whatever it could be. Slowly, this seed grew into alot more. In fact, I had nonstop erections for my wife and constant interest in her. It is really too bad she wasn't thrilled with it. She was loving towards me but withdrew out of fear that I was insatiable. Ironically, I had trouble orgasming even though I had come to want her and sexually respond to her. She started trying to cool me down. What I think I really needed was just time to go through some rapid growth and find myself. I was stilted. She withdrew from me and in desperation I tried to pursue her more. I was terrified of losing what I gained. In the end, I went back to struggling with desires for male affirmation and lost all interest in her. It was the worst wound I have ever had. It felt like I had almost escaped a trap only to be thrown back in by the one I loved and trusted.

But then, she suddenly decided she needed and wanted me sexually. My decreased supply resulted in an increased demand. This was really, really painful. I was full of doubt. I had relapsed inside so much. I wasn't arroused by her or any women. But I walked that road again. She is completely satisfied sexually now and I am always able to deliver. But inside part of me lingers over a feeling of betrayal and abandoment. I felt abandoned by my parents, the person who raped my body and soul, and my wife. I am working to get past this issue.

Gender identity is a lot more that just genes and brain chemistry. It is also the things we love most and spend our lives pursuing. Unlike you, I found men to be attractive. I was young enough and exposed to a concept of masculinity that glorified male appearance instead of female. So you at least have that going for you. If you love your wife, engage her. When something in your mind screams "NO!". Look at it. Doubt it. Question it's right to tell you what you can and can't do. When you hold your wife and you feel something telling you how inadequate the whole experience is, how empty it all is refuse it. Take hold of the simple, small, pathetic, weak, and love it for being there. If you water even small seeds, you will be amazed at what you can make grow. And don't be intimidated by larger trees trying to hog all the sun light.


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#171056 - 08/05/07 06:33 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: Buernt]
hayden502 Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Canada
** Advance Warning: Material may offend some

Hey Lostone,
I can sort of relate with you about the men hitting on you bit. I can't say much about not wanting sex from women, though. I'm a married man that very much loves and needs affection sexually and emotionally from my wife, however, like you, men hit on me constantly. In the past year alone I'd estimate that around 10 men have hit on me vs only two occasions where I can remember a woman hitting on me. So in ratio I've had quadruple the amount of men hit on me vs women. I don't think it's my physical persona that gives men the impression that I'm gay, as I am your typical 21 year old looking/dressing straight guy. To be honest I don't know what it is, but what I do know is that it's degrating and insulting. Especially since at least half of the ten men know that I'm married to a woman. The only thing that I can conclude is that yes, they know I'm not into guys, but by trying to flatter me with smooth talk and gestures that they may pull a "gay side" out of me. I was where you are now- I liked dick before I met my wife. I swung on both sides of the tree (bisexual), which I now know was because of the SA I suffered by the multiple men. I know within myself I'm not gay or even bi, but I used to think I was because male to male sexual contact in my eyes was becoming so normal.

As for your question "if I like male genitals that makes me gay or bi, right?", well in theory, yes it makes you at least bisexual. Straight men do not find male sex organs sexually arousing. This is not to say that you can't be bisexual and still love and care for your wife too. You can still receive and accept affection from your wife and embrace that without having to worry that you're living a lie. Lots of bisexual men get married to women and have happy lives. In fact in the first year or so I was with my wife I still identified as bisexual before I realized that I actually wasn't. You also mentioned the need to to masturbate- and I think that's awesome. You can jerk it and imagine yourself having sex with a guy- by doing this you're expressing your bisexual feelings, yet remaining faithful to your wife. Evetually you may want to be honest with your wife about what your feeling. If you don't then you will, maybe not right away, but eventually feel like your living a lie.
I hope that this has helped. It's blunt, but straight forward and logical. Good luck buddy.


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