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#131690 - 01/10/05 11:48 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Dave, I only found this topic out of following another post, I do not frequent this forum as much as I should.

I nearly deleted my post, but I thought? What the hell, post it, let it out, don't deny it.

I think it is all the best way of letting this stuff out, by really saying how it affected us, warts and all, to get rid of the suppression is a great way of dealing with it.

When we really open up to what we think is so bizarre and unnatural that has maybe manifested itself for years, the shame is lifted by knowing someone else has been there.

This topic is so much an open topic, but it is a really good thread.

Thanks for all who were so open,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#131691 - 01/13/05 07:52 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Dave,
Quote:
OR - could it possibly distort our natural feminine side rather than suppress it?

I think it's accepted that all men have a feminine side, some more than others obviously.
But being naturally heterosexual and then 'having sex' with a man is confusing, especially to a boy.
I'm not trying to make anything of the Gay perspective here, so please don't take offense.

If we are destined to be straight, then our understanding of sexual acts will be straight sex acts surely?
So we get penetrated sexually and the only understanding we might have is that it's 'only women' who get penetrated.
We then believe that we are being used as 'girls'.

Does that sound as though it would fuck with our reasoning as young boys? It does to me.
I agree with you 100%, thats why I tried to suppress all my feminine behaviors. Example when I cross my legs, if I am with anyone I will cross them at the ankle, like a guy, but if I am alone and have my thoughts on other things, I will cross at the knee in girl fashion. I also tend to grow my nails longer than is normal for males.I am sure I have others traits, just not coming to mind right now.

Hi ste,
I am glad you did not erase your post, it helps to know you are not alone. Also I think us posting things that are of a embarrassing nature encourages the lurkers to post.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131692 - 01/14/05 09:59 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
brokentoys Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 149
Loc: So. California
Dave,
You make an interesting point; however, at the age of 4 when my abuse began I certainly had no ideas of sex or who had what done to whom. I had no preconceived notions and interestingly enough I was still very naiive about sex into my teens because I never equated sex with what happened. I guess in a way that is a good thing because it wasn't about sex, it was about power. I don't think it made me feel or act feminine at all, although I guess I do to a degree as my first wife thought I was gay when I met her! lol! I guess in part because I showed up at her house with one of my friends she knew to be gay. But she said I just was not as agressive and stuff as most men. That I was more feminine. Did my experience make me that way? I just don't know. Certainly not at the time I was abused as he stopped when I was about 8 or 10 and I was still pretty naiive at that age. Sounds funny to say I'd been having sex for 4-6 years and yet was naiive about sex. I'm gonna have to think about that one!
Broken

_________________________
It's easier to go down a hill than up it but the view is much better at the top.

Arnold Bennet

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#131693 - 01/17/05 12:00 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Broken

Quote:
however, at the age of 4 when my abuse began I certainly had no ideas of sex or who had what done to whom.
That's surely right, my abuse started when I was 11yo and more sexually aware, certainly not fully aware as my family was one that never mentioned the "S" word and certainly didn't explain the facts of life to meor my brother.
But by that age I was aware that 'boys put their thing in the girl's thingy'

So with that much understanding I 'assumed' the girls role for my abusers.


Cowboy.
I've also played down any feminine attributes, although at any gathering I have often gravitated towards the women to talk to.
But I've had a beard since I was 17yo and always done the 'macho man' thing.
Nobody was going to doubt my masculinity!

It's bullshit isn't it? it's nothing more than stereotyping. But having another, unwanted, reason to pander to these stereotypes is something we can do without.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#131694 - 01/20/05 08:15 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Lostcowboy thank you for helping me finally let it out in the open. My experiences are so much similar to yours.

After my abuse I gradually started becoming more and more feminine. The reason I discovered much later during theraphy was that I hated anything male, including my own masculinity and my father!! ( Though he wasn't my perp, he only abussed me emotionally and physically)

I found comfort in female company or effeminate male friends, more for safety. With men I always had the fear of getting 'attracted', overpowered or attracting someone, they all seem to be eyeing me.
Boy it was scary, I went more and more inside, and shut down. And soon the femine side overpowered me. I started thinking behaving like a woman, (ankle and all) though it made me good in arts and dance, but it made me terribly self conscious and prone to constant ridicule.

I would constantly try to control my gestures and behaviour lest someone would find out my little secret. The more I believed the more it became true for me. I felt strange awkwardness getting erection, though I got pleasure from it. I tried to hide my own masculnity so much that it hid completely, even from myself. and was replaced by residual feminine side. So feminine qualities took over and danced around.

To add to the misery my father once took me to a
doc to check as he thought I wasn't well endowned as a child. Much to my horror and shame. even when the doctor said he ok, just slow, he discussed it further with his friends who asked me questions...

That one incident damaged my self esteem like any thing. I saw my every action as feminine. And started believing it to be true. SO naturally I tried to supress my natural behaviour. that made my sexuality more warped.

When I had sex with a man, at first he seduced me by being passive but later when he started being active, I enjoyed the feeling like a woman, but then after few days I started disliking it more and more and one day my feelings of abuse came back and I shut down completely. That is when it all came out. That deep within I hated it and hated my self for doing it, again and again. The reason of my self hate came out in the open.

Now my journey is to ask forgiveness from my self and forgive myself and most importantly consciously take charge of my sexuality.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#131695 - 01/20/05 08:48 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Morningstar,

I think we can all see a picture emerging here, not the same, but very similar.

Quote:
To add to the misery my father once took me to a
doc to check as he thought I wasn't well endowned as a child. Much to my horror and shame. even when the doctor said he ok, just slow, he discussed it further with his friends who asked me questions...
This action your father took too a small boy would have been the ultimate humiliation, the doctor also would have been humiliating in this.

Parents very often don't know how badly they are treating their kids after these situations, the secondary abuse can often be worse than the initial act, as it has so many knock on effects. :rolleyes:

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#131696 - 09/02/05 05:59 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
The following contains triggers and the sexual.

This is a very interesting discussion. Ironically, before I read this post, I had thought of writing about the "strange way to masturbate." I ferformed it during several years of high school and the Univ. At the first times, I did it often, every week. Later I calmed down to doing it once per month, or once a half a year. I had precisely the same drive to know what the woman experiences. My parents found the things I was doing it.

I have never acted out, though. Given the number if issues being discussed in this post, I can only add to the already said, that my parents, especially the dad, humiliated me after the abuse had happened. The dad was calling me a faggot, gay, girl. I realize, and agree with you, that these behaviour of the parents is destroying what has remained of the child's psych. They did as thought were taking use of the moment to completely shut me down.

I have never thought of myself as being gay, or being absolutelu straight, but sometimes I was living this role of a gay teen, and I was extremely comfortable around other people. These times did last for long. I always, ALWAYS, was betrayed by the more powerful people, and they abused me in some way or another (but not sexually) over and over again. For example, the Dean in the Univ. was abusing me physically, when I was already 21 and he used to punch me 'slightly' in the head and making the whole situation feel as though I was in complete control of him.

I had felt confused before I started to think about the abuse I experienced, and before I understood how much great a consequence it had exerted on my life. I had sex with my buddy while being a firt year student at the Univ. I felt good, strangely. There waw penetration, but only sensitive touch and masturbation. In the morning after this happened, I felt confusion, but I had never before had a pleasure like that with a girl. I am still searching, but I avoid to meet with this guy for a while for the reasons I can not present now.

Once again, talking about these issues, you give a feeling I am not alone with my confusion. I realize it how it is about to be with the Survivors. My dad played a very bad role, however, as he humiliated me at the time I most of all needed his life and acceptance. These "outside images" of being gay, girl, weak, feminine, were freely penetrating into my life, but could I thought about something different? I only tried to restore my identity, and figure out what I was (not become after the abuse), and who were those people around me. I was too serious and I FRGOT HOW TO PLAY.

I was physically violent to the other guys at school. My dad played a full forcing me to go to the boxing club. His message was as clear as I can perceive now, "You should be able to defend yourself; you should not be weak." I was not. I had not need to defend myself by those means. I was a good guy; I was before I had started boxing. And on, and on, and on.

Mom betrayed when I was actually bitten by an adult man who was drunk. I did nothing, just found myself "in the wrong place at the wrong time" for the second time. Is it self-fulfilling prophecy, daddy? Then yuo started to greet with this guy, and mommy did the same. They always wanted to TEACH ME THE LIFE. They were not Nietzsches to do that.

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#131697 - 09/02/05 07:04 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Alexey, I am sorry that all this happened to you. I am glad that this thread has helped you to talk about this. I am glad that we have a place like malesurvivor where we can feel safe enough to talk about these things.
I don't know if you want to read it but Brian G. Gilmartin wrote a book called, Shyness & Love: Causes, Consequences, and Treatment by Dr. Brian G. Gilmartin you can get a free copy of it here http://www.love-shy.com/ in order to read it, you need the free adobe reader program that you can get here. http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readermain.html

Take care,
Lostcowboy

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131698 - 09/03/05 09:38 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
Here, there and everywhere

Once in a while a post really makes me see things.

One's sexual role in life is complex. I was down the road way to early and survived (big time).

Just way any who think, feel "gay" thoughts or that they may be, to realize that SA does a number on your sexuality. But be assured that there is no general rule as to "what gay guys do". Ask the fellows on the gay section.

Granted my abuser tried to feminize me. But I was
already a bit effeminate or just a bit sissy.

I went into an "asexual" mode years later, just so many rules I made up. All seemingly to avoid what was done unto me.

I replaced sex drive with a need for love. Took decades. My hope is that when we explore that we all can become better persons with our new friends before one goes to far.

Rocky Mt High sends a cool Colorado breeze to you...


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#131699 - 09/05/05 05:30 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
lostcowboy, thanks for this link. I will see what this book is about. Thank you for your support as it is very important. I understand that sexual identity problems have their causes, and one does not have to see themselves and others in black and white light. The sexual abuse destroyed the very human spirit.

RockyMtJoe, thanks! Replacement of the need for sex with the search for love is more dramatic than it may seems, but I know what these words are about. You get a perspective on how I and the others who post here live and deal with sex. I like how you put it, and I am sorry that this happened to you. I am very sorry, as I face the same issues.

You are supporting as nobody else could.

I used to post on a mostly female forum some weeks ago. Women can help. They are very supportive. Love is attainable. You guys make me think that sex is as important as love, and it is a problem. A sexual confusion is a problem with an awful background. Maybe there's a need to understand our sexual life if we want to become more human.

I am wishing this type of support goes on and on, as it is discovering reality.

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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