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#131670 - 12/09/04 04:54 AM A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
When I was raped, I thought what happen would make sense if I was a girl. Not that that would make it right. When I was 16, I moved back into my Dads house. I had a intense desire to know what girls felt during sex. I would put things up my ass, while fantasizing that I was a girl having sex with a guy. I still do this sometimes even now. But I mostly have normal fantasy's, and normal masturbation.
When I had the affair with the gay guy I did have fantasy's about him and me, with me both on top, and on the bottom in the fantasy's.

This may have a bearing on this. I once read a book called (The Shy Man Syndrome: Why Men Become Love-Shy and How They Can Overcome It
by Brian G. Gilmartin) The book seems to fit me to a Tee. I have always felt that my personality was more female than male, I don't seem to have that aggressiveness that males do. I have felt that I would make a better female than male. However up until the affair with the gay guy I never wanted to have sex with a guy, and in the ten years sense it happen I have not been attracted to guys. I have been attracted to girls a lot though.
So sorry to disappoint the gay guys, I don't think this has anything to do with bi, or gayness.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131671 - 12/09/04 09:04 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Well, LCB, when you're talking about love-shy guys, I think that you may have found at least a couple of brothers. Me for one. If I had only known what CSA would do to me in the pursuit of girlfriends and a mate, I wouldn't have worried so much.
I think one of the things that allowed me to feel "normal" was when I heard how many guys, who had also suffered from the fallout of CSA, were virgins when they got married.
I think that a lot of this stuff can be worked out in therapy. We talked about some of that tonight in group. That our dreams and fantasies are happenings of things not worked through.
There can be lots of variations of acting out or replication of what was done to us. In other words, we act out what was done to us in order to make sense of what happeded to us, only with us in charge instead of the power being in someone else's hands.
When we get a handle on understanding what happened to us by talking through what happened to us, the dreams and fantasies become more of what we really want without the confusion of sexual orientation that most of us experience when surviving sexual abuse.
All I'm saying, that in my opinion, we can be all over the place, sexually, until we have the proper invironment to work through the confusion we experience as after effects of childhood sexual abuse.
Hoping that you can find a therapist skilled in helping you find your way through all of this.
Ken Singer may know of a therapist in your area; PM him.

Good luck,

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#131672 - 12/09/04 07:33 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Thinks Dave, I'll have to think on what you said.

About a therapist, I guess I should talk about the navy and how the navy psychiatrists did not give me any help.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131673 - 12/09/04 08:20 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Hi Lostcowboy,
I would like to add mine opinion about this interesting topic.

It is very important what kind of the fantasies do you have. What I see is that most of them are predominantly heterosexual which is telling a lot about your sexual orientation.
Feeling of penetration in males often intensifies orgasm; this is anatomical fact that doesn't have anything with sexual orientation.
Some hetero guys like to feel it very much during masturbation or intercourse with the women, but most of them would not admit it openly (macho attitude).

I think that you just acted out with that guy.

In relation to your feeling of less aggressiveness - this could just mean that you are more emotionally sensitive guy. This could be great advantage for higher quality of relationships.

Regards,
Ivo


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#131674 - 12/10/04 02:53 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 470
Loc: UK
Hi Lostcowboy,

What Ivanhoe says makes sense to me. The affects of abuse are very complex when it comes to identity. They do affect fantasies in a major way and many of us acted out in ways that cause confusion about our identities as men, straight of gay. It may be that your acting out was a way to rewrite and try to make subconscious sense of what was done to you. Do you think that the guy you had the relationship being the same race as your abuser was just a coincidence? It would point to the possibility that this affair was an attempt to resolve the trauma by you having control.

This stuff is near impossible to sort out on our own, I am sorry that the navy psychiatrists were of no help, I go to a therapist and it really helps, so maybe trying therapy again might be an idea.

As to how you see yourself as a man, not having aggressiveness doesnít seem like a loss to me but if it is bound up with your identity then I can see why it feels like a problem.

I am sure that the gay community will manage without you so donít worry about our disappointment. ;\)

Can I add that I think your honesty is great.

Rustam


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#131675 - 12/10/04 03:45 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
brokentoys Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 149
Loc: So. California
Hey Lostcowboy,
Don't put too much stock in labels. Straight, gay, bi, heck it really doesn't even matter! The bottom line is that you live your life in such a way as to make you happy. Don't worry about being more passive. I am very passive, I'm sure that is, at least in part, due to the physical abuse I endured from birth to adulthood. That does not make me less of a man, in fact both female and male friends find it to be a nice quality. I have had many people assume I am gay right off the bat because I am not agressive. It's just not in me to be agressive. That has nothing to do with my sexual orientation. Even in sex I am passive. In fact the only times I am agressive is if someone or something threatens one of my kids. Then all he&& breaks loose! If someone feels that makes me feminine, well fine, that's their opinion. Their opinion means nothing to me. Their opinion does not make me less of a man at all. Learn to be at ease with yourself. Others can put labels on you, but don't do it to yourself. The minute you start believing in labels is the time you quite being who you really are and start living up to someone else's idea of what you should be based on their idea of societal norms. JMHO
Broken

_________________________
It's easier to go down a hill than up it but the view is much better at the top.

Arnold Bennet

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#131676 - 12/11/04 09:40 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Just cause it is late when I read your replies, I will keep this short. What a great bunch of guys you are! I will add a more full reply later.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131677 - 12/11/04 08:04 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
I have to say this is an interesting topic. It covers a lot.

I think I will have to seek this The Shy Man Syndrome: Why Men Become Love-Shy and How They Can Overcome Itbook by Brian G. Gilmartin out and give it a read. Thanks.

Take care,
Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#131678 - 12/12/04 03:15 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi guys you have given me a lot to think about.

Ivo, you are right in that I am a emotionally sensitive guy, I used to try to tone it down, so as to fit in better with the macho guys on the submarines. Of interest, when the guys had something bothering them they would come and discuss it with me, as I am a good listener.

Rustam
Quote:
I am sure that the gay community will manage without you so donít worry about our disappointment.

Can I add that I think your honesty is great.
Ah, a guy that still has a sense of humor, it is nice to see humor on the board, we need more of it I think. One of the things I decided on before posting here, was to be as honest as I could be. If I knowingly lie or leave something out. Then the advise that people give will in all likelihood not help me. So I would be wasting my time on the board.

Brokentoys, You are right I do put to much into labels. I am working on not doing that.

Bill_1965, It is a interesting book, most public library's have a service, where if they don't have the book you want, they can borrow it from another library. The book costs a round $70 on amazon.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131679 - 12/13/04 07:06 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
gs Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 24
Loc: christchurch
Having lived with what happened to me for 20years without telling anyone (until recently) I have had the same issues myself.I have been with more guys than I have girls and yet I am not physically attracted to males, and yet I still have had many encounters.In saying that I have never met a woman I have been able to get close to emotionally without scaring them away, so I convince myself that maybe I am gay and I should follow that path.When I am with a male I enjoy it at the time but as soon as it is over I can't get out of there quick enough and I tend to feel like I've done something dirty or wrong.I know in my heart that what I want is to be close to a woman and to know what it is like to actually make love to a woman, rather than just sex as I have known it.


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#131680 - 12/13/04 07:14 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
MollyHatchetrules Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 31
Loc: Hoover, AL USA
gs, it's just my opinion that sexual orientation has more to do with how a person feels than what a person does. You said that although you have been with more men than women, you feel like you have done something wrong after being with a man. You also said that you want to love a woman and be close to her. It's just my opinion that if you would rather be in a relationship with a woman instead of a man, then you're not really gay, even if you have been with more men than women. Most people don't understand the fact that when you are with someone sexually, whether you want it or not, your body will respond as if you did want it. When this happens during sexual abuse, it's not uncommon for the victim to mistake this for pleasure. I was eleven the first time it happened to me, so of course I didn't know this. It's the reason I waited until I was eighteen before saying anything about what happened. But my point is, enjoying sex with a man doesn't necessarilly mean you are gay. I don't say I'm gay because I enjoy having sex with men. Actually I can't say that since I've never willingly been with a man before. But the reason I say I'm gay is because I would rather be in a relationship with a man instead of a woman. So if you would rather be in a relationship with a woman instead of a man, you're probably not gay. Sexual abuse can confuse people pretty badly when it comes to their sexual orientation.

_________________________
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will live as one
-John Lennon

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#131681 - 01/04/05 10:54 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi all, I remembered something else. Sometimes I like to take showers in the dark. A lot of the times when I really wanted to tell someone about being raped but couldn't, I would shower in the dark, and curl up in a ball on the shower floor and daydream that I was able to tell about being raped.

My wife has been in the hospital, and wanted me by her side 24/7, that is where I have been the last 10 days. They released her on 31 DEC. One of the things I did was shower in the dark again. I am really afraid of losing her. I guess showering in the dark is one of my ways of releasing stress.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131682 - 01/06/05 03:54 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Val Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 8
Loc: nc
lostcowboy
You sound like such a caring and sensitive man. Your wife is very blessed to have you. I wish you and her well.


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#131683 - 01/07/05 11:57 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
SJake Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/07/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Wisconsin



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#131684 - 01/08/05 12:29 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi SJake, welcome to the board, I am sorry you had these things happen to you. I have sent a email to the person who monitors this section of the board to see if your post can be put in a new thread, so it can get the attention it needs. I don't have enough experience to help guide you. Ken Singer does have the experience to help guide you, he is the monitor for this section. Again I wish you well, and welcome to the board. Some help should be here soon.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

Top
#131685 - 01/09/05 12:42 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Lostcowboy, hey, you are not alone. Showering in the dark, it is a way of acting out or putting things back together the way you deal with it.

After my abuse ended, he made me feel that I was somehow, a girl. I could not dream that men did these things with boys.

It blew all my fuses, I could not think why this had happened. I went through acting out as a girl, fantasising about being one.

One dangerous part of acting out, was when, as a boy, I would regularly toss my clothes off and walk nude on the beach, when nobody was around I felt such a strong urge to do this, and it gave me a powerful sense of release, to be at one with nature.

Maybe, I was kicking back at mankind, I don't really know, but I could not stand wearing clothes, as they made me feel dirty.

The real confusion is though, that I would never wear shorts or speedos and feel comfortable on the beach in front of people.

There is a lot more to this, but I am only posting this for now,

take care,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#131686 - 01/10/05 05:55 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Reality2k4,
Quote:
After my abuse ended, he made me feel that I was somehow, a girl. I could not dream that men did these things with boys.

It blew all my fuses, I could not think why this had happened. I went through acting out as a girl, fantasizing about being one.
Yes, If I was a girl it would have helped me make sense of what happened, it would not have made it all right, but it would have made it understandable. I tried to suppress any behavior that may be considered feminine.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

Top
#131687 - 01/10/05 06:42 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
TRIGGER WARNING

Quote:
Yes, If I was a girl it would have helped me make sense of what happened, it would not have made it all right, but it would have made it understandable. I tried to suppress any behavior that may be considered feminine.
OR - could it possibly distort our natural feminine side rather than surpress it?

I think it's accepted that all men have a feminine side, some more than others obviously.
But being naturally heterosexual and then 'having sex' with a man is confusing, especially to a boy.
I'm not trying to make anything of the Gay perspective here, so please don't take offense.

If we are destined to be straight, then our understanding of sexual acts will be straight sex acts surely?
So we get penetrated sexually and the only understanding we might have is that it's 'only women' who get penetrated.
We then believe that we are being used as 'girls'.

Does that sound as though it would fuck with our reasoning as young boys? It does to me.

I can remember my abusers making me wear womens panties some times, they would tell me that; "what WE are doing is good practice for fucking girls" and "you suck better than my girlfriend" ( Like they HAD girlfriends ! )
These were confusing messages to me, and ones that remained with me for a very long time, and became very strong when I was at the height of my acting out.

My acting out was fixated on giving oral sex, but recieving anal sex was also an option.
And sometimes when 'cruising for action' I would again wear womens panties.
It isn't a pantie fetish, I didn't fantasize about wearing them, it's just a big part of the submissive feminine role that I thought was my role in life.
I never wanted the other man to give me oral sex, or desire having anal sex with him. And I also wanted his dominance and my submission, to the degree that if he just asked something such as "would you like me to do .....?" I would be out of there so fast I'd trample him in the rush. I actually ended up fighting with one guy when he 'broke' my rigid fantasy and wanted me to take on the dominant role.

The dynamics of 'how' we act out are deep and complicated, but once I'd got this theory of my behaviours figured out through therapy ( mainly ) and my own efforts, the need to act out went away.

My 'theory' might be wrong, and I must stress that it's an individual theory, but it fits my behaviours and makes sense to me. If a psychologist or therapist comes along and tells me different, I'm NOT listening.

Acting out sexually is a desperate situation, there are no winners at all. The drive is unstoppable, the risks are huge and unforgiving, and the resulting guilt and shame are unbearable.
But it's possible to stop, very, very hard work, but possible.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#131688 - 01/10/05 06:49 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
When my post came on the screen I read it again and saw this -


Quote:
I actually ended up fighting with one guy when he 'broke' my rigid fantasy and wanted me to take on the dominant role.
And burst our laughing!
I probably made his day, he wanted me to be 'dominant' in the sex, so I kicked him in the fucking nuts ! \:D

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#131689 - 01/10/05 11:10 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
And, I must say, added to his sexual orientation confusion.

Thank you, once again, for being so honest, Dave.
Many of us will feel it's ok to be open and honest here because of your example.
So glad that you weren't hurt any worse than you were. As if it were not bad enough, huh?
But what I mean is, in all of the months that I've read your story, I'm amazed that you were not killed or contracted some killer disease. That God it was neither and that you have lived to be such an example of honesty and caring for us.
From a brother who appreciates your presence, so much.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#131690 - 01/10/05 11:48 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Dave, I only found this topic out of following another post, I do not frequent this forum as much as I should.

I nearly deleted my post, but I thought? What the hell, post it, let it out, don't deny it.

I think it is all the best way of letting this stuff out, by really saying how it affected us, warts and all, to get rid of the suppression is a great way of dealing with it.

When we really open up to what we think is so bizarre and unnatural that has maybe manifested itself for years, the shame is lifted by knowing someone else has been there.

This topic is so much an open topic, but it is a really good thread.

Thanks for all who were so open,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#131691 - 01/13/05 07:52 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Dave,
Quote:
OR - could it possibly distort our natural feminine side rather than suppress it?

I think it's accepted that all men have a feminine side, some more than others obviously.
But being naturally heterosexual and then 'having sex' with a man is confusing, especially to a boy.
I'm not trying to make anything of the Gay perspective here, so please don't take offense.

If we are destined to be straight, then our understanding of sexual acts will be straight sex acts surely?
So we get penetrated sexually and the only understanding we might have is that it's 'only women' who get penetrated.
We then believe that we are being used as 'girls'.

Does that sound as though it would fuck with our reasoning as young boys? It does to me.
I agree with you 100%, thats why I tried to suppress all my feminine behaviors. Example when I cross my legs, if I am with anyone I will cross them at the ankle, like a guy, but if I am alone and have my thoughts on other things, I will cross at the knee in girl fashion. I also tend to grow my nails longer than is normal for males.I am sure I have others traits, just not coming to mind right now.

Hi ste,
I am glad you did not erase your post, it helps to know you are not alone. Also I think us posting things that are of a embarrassing nature encourages the lurkers to post.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

Top
#131692 - 01/14/05 09:59 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
brokentoys Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 149
Loc: So. California
Dave,
You make an interesting point; however, at the age of 4 when my abuse began I certainly had no ideas of sex or who had what done to whom. I had no preconceived notions and interestingly enough I was still very naiive about sex into my teens because I never equated sex with what happened. I guess in a way that is a good thing because it wasn't about sex, it was about power. I don't think it made me feel or act feminine at all, although I guess I do to a degree as my first wife thought I was gay when I met her! lol! I guess in part because I showed up at her house with one of my friends she knew to be gay. But she said I just was not as agressive and stuff as most men. That I was more feminine. Did my experience make me that way? I just don't know. Certainly not at the time I was abused as he stopped when I was about 8 or 10 and I was still pretty naiive at that age. Sounds funny to say I'd been having sex for 4-6 years and yet was naiive about sex. I'm gonna have to think about that one!
Broken

_________________________
It's easier to go down a hill than up it but the view is much better at the top.

Arnold Bennet

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#131693 - 01/17/05 12:00 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Broken

Quote:
however, at the age of 4 when my abuse began I certainly had no ideas of sex or who had what done to whom.
That's surely right, my abuse started when I was 11yo and more sexually aware, certainly not fully aware as my family was one that never mentioned the "S" word and certainly didn't explain the facts of life to meor my brother.
But by that age I was aware that 'boys put their thing in the girl's thingy'

So with that much understanding I 'assumed' the girls role for my abusers.


Cowboy.
I've also played down any feminine attributes, although at any gathering I have often gravitated towards the women to talk to.
But I've had a beard since I was 17yo and always done the 'macho man' thing.
Nobody was going to doubt my masculinity!

It's bullshit isn't it? it's nothing more than stereotyping. But having another, unwanted, reason to pander to these stereotypes is something we can do without.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#131694 - 01/20/05 08:15 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Lostcowboy thank you for helping me finally let it out in the open. My experiences are so much similar to yours.

After my abuse I gradually started becoming more and more feminine. The reason I discovered much later during theraphy was that I hated anything male, including my own masculinity and my father!! ( Though he wasn't my perp, he only abussed me emotionally and physically)

I found comfort in female company or effeminate male friends, more for safety. With men I always had the fear of getting 'attracted', overpowered or attracting someone, they all seem to be eyeing me.
Boy it was scary, I went more and more inside, and shut down. And soon the femine side overpowered me. I started thinking behaving like a woman, (ankle and all) though it made me good in arts and dance, but it made me terribly self conscious and prone to constant ridicule.

I would constantly try to control my gestures and behaviour lest someone would find out my little secret. The more I believed the more it became true for me. I felt strange awkwardness getting erection, though I got pleasure from it. I tried to hide my own masculnity so much that it hid completely, even from myself. and was replaced by residual feminine side. So feminine qualities took over and danced around.

To add to the misery my father once took me to a
doc to check as he thought I wasn't well endowned as a child. Much to my horror and shame. even when the doctor said he ok, just slow, he discussed it further with his friends who asked me questions...

That one incident damaged my self esteem like any thing. I saw my every action as feminine. And started believing it to be true. SO naturally I tried to supress my natural behaviour. that made my sexuality more warped.

When I had sex with a man, at first he seduced me by being passive but later when he started being active, I enjoyed the feeling like a woman, but then after few days I started disliking it more and more and one day my feelings of abuse came back and I shut down completely. That is when it all came out. That deep within I hated it and hated my self for doing it, again and again. The reason of my self hate came out in the open.

Now my journey is to ask forgiveness from my self and forgive myself and most importantly consciously take charge of my sexuality.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#131695 - 01/20/05 08:48 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Morningstar,

I think we can all see a picture emerging here, not the same, but very similar.

Quote:
To add to the misery my father once took me to a
doc to check as he thought I wasn't well endowned as a child. Much to my horror and shame. even when the doctor said he ok, just slow, he discussed it further with his friends who asked me questions...
This action your father took too a small boy would have been the ultimate humiliation, the doctor also would have been humiliating in this.

Parents very often don't know how badly they are treating their kids after these situations, the secondary abuse can often be worse than the initial act, as it has so many knock on effects. :rolleyes:

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#131696 - 09/02/05 05:59 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
The following contains triggers and the sexual.

This is a very interesting discussion. Ironically, before I read this post, I had thought of writing about the "strange way to masturbate." I ferformed it during several years of high school and the Univ. At the first times, I did it often, every week. Later I calmed down to doing it once per month, or once a half a year. I had precisely the same drive to know what the woman experiences. My parents found the things I was doing it.

I have never acted out, though. Given the number if issues being discussed in this post, I can only add to the already said, that my parents, especially the dad, humiliated me after the abuse had happened. The dad was calling me a faggot, gay, girl. I realize, and agree with you, that these behaviour of the parents is destroying what has remained of the child's psych. They did as thought were taking use of the moment to completely shut me down.

I have never thought of myself as being gay, or being absolutelu straight, but sometimes I was living this role of a gay teen, and I was extremely comfortable around other people. These times did last for long. I always, ALWAYS, was betrayed by the more powerful people, and they abused me in some way or another (but not sexually) over and over again. For example, the Dean in the Univ. was abusing me physically, when I was already 21 and he used to punch me 'slightly' in the head and making the whole situation feel as though I was in complete control of him.

I had felt confused before I started to think about the abuse I experienced, and before I understood how much great a consequence it had exerted on my life. I had sex with my buddy while being a firt year student at the Univ. I felt good, strangely. There waw penetration, but only sensitive touch and masturbation. In the morning after this happened, I felt confusion, but I had never before had a pleasure like that with a girl. I am still searching, but I avoid to meet with this guy for a while for the reasons I can not present now.

Once again, talking about these issues, you give a feeling I am not alone with my confusion. I realize it how it is about to be with the Survivors. My dad played a very bad role, however, as he humiliated me at the time I most of all needed his life and acceptance. These "outside images" of being gay, girl, weak, feminine, were freely penetrating into my life, but could I thought about something different? I only tried to restore my identity, and figure out what I was (not become after the abuse), and who were those people around me. I was too serious and I FRGOT HOW TO PLAY.

I was physically violent to the other guys at school. My dad played a full forcing me to go to the boxing club. His message was as clear as I can perceive now, "You should be able to defend yourself; you should not be weak." I was not. I had not need to defend myself by those means. I was a good guy; I was before I had started boxing. And on, and on, and on.

Mom betrayed when I was actually bitten by an adult man who was drunk. I did nothing, just found myself "in the wrong place at the wrong time" for the second time. Is it self-fulfilling prophecy, daddy? Then yuo started to greet with this guy, and mommy did the same. They always wanted to TEACH ME THE LIFE. They were not Nietzsches to do that.

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#131697 - 09/02/05 07:04 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Alexey, I am sorry that all this happened to you. I am glad that this thread has helped you to talk about this. I am glad that we have a place like malesurvivor where we can feel safe enough to talk about these things.
I don't know if you want to read it but Brian G. Gilmartin wrote a book called, Shyness & Love: Causes, Consequences, and Treatment by Dr. Brian G. Gilmartin you can get a free copy of it here http://www.love-shy.com/ in order to read it, you need the free adobe reader program that you can get here. http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readermain.html

Take care,
Lostcowboy

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131698 - 09/03/05 09:38 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
Here, there and everywhere

Once in a while a post really makes me see things.

One's sexual role in life is complex. I was down the road way to early and survived (big time).

Just way any who think, feel "gay" thoughts or that they may be, to realize that SA does a number on your sexuality. But be assured that there is no general rule as to "what gay guys do". Ask the fellows on the gay section.

Granted my abuser tried to feminize me. But I was
already a bit effeminate or just a bit sissy.

I went into an "asexual" mode years later, just so many rules I made up. All seemingly to avoid what was done unto me.

I replaced sex drive with a need for love. Took decades. My hope is that when we explore that we all can become better persons with our new friends before one goes to far.

Rocky Mt High sends a cool Colorado breeze to you...


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#131699 - 09/05/05 05:30 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
lostcowboy, thanks for this link. I will see what this book is about. Thank you for your support as it is very important. I understand that sexual identity problems have their causes, and one does not have to see themselves and others in black and white light. The sexual abuse destroyed the very human spirit.

RockyMtJoe, thanks! Replacement of the need for sex with the search for love is more dramatic than it may seems, but I know what these words are about. You get a perspective on how I and the others who post here live and deal with sex. I like how you put it, and I am sorry that this happened to you. I am very sorry, as I face the same issues.

You are supporting as nobody else could.

I used to post on a mostly female forum some weeks ago. Women can help. They are very supportive. Love is attainable. You guys make me think that sex is as important as love, and it is a problem. A sexual confusion is a problem with an awful background. Maybe there's a need to understand our sexual life if we want to become more human.

I am wishing this type of support goes on and on, as it is discovering reality.

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#131700 - 10/19/05 03:42 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
fozzy_bear Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Upstate NY
Just to add to the physiology part here. It is not unusual to enjoy penetration. There are very sensitive parts near the rectum. Your vas deferens and prostate gland is there. Both very much involved in the sexual experience.

I also agree, that there is a feminine part to everyone. Also remember that males have estrogen and women have testosterone. A cruel joke, maybe. But anyway, I was never sure if my softer side came from being born, my parents raising me or the abuse I endured. It could even be 2 of 3 or 3 of 3. I caught soo much flak and hide as a kid for this and at the same time hiding what was happening to me. I am only just catching up sexually and socially. I guess what I am saying is that it is a part of us but does not define us. Work with it. I know its an asset, just trying to figure out how it fits in to my life.


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#131701 - 10/28/05 03:59 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Ric Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
I want to echo fozzy bear's comments on the physiology aspect. The prostate is sometimes referred to as the male "G" spot.

Most of my sexual abuse was in the form of anal rape, which led me to complex feelings of ambivalence about my gender focus and the pleasure I sometimes derived from the experience. As an adult, I went on a literature search to study sexual techniques and beliefs in other cultures - and while we associate anal activity with gay activity in our popular culture, it is not the case in some eastern traditions, where penetration, shifting roles and prostate stimulation are regarded as part of the full range of sexual exchange between a man and a woman.

Studying it objectively and removing the stigma/trigger are two different things, of course.. but the information helped me understand my body more, and allowed me to disentangle some of my identity issues.


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#131702 - 07/29/06 12:47 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi guys, its been awhile. My desire to put something up my ass has diminished greatly after I wrote this. Which has got me thinking, maybe a lot of the desire was that I was wanting to punish myself for what happened to me. Like it was my fault for what happened. Many a time the pleasure would cross over the line and become pain. But that didn't stop me from doing it again.

Take care,
Clifford

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131703 - 07/29/06 10:02 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Hi Clifford,

Thanks for this particular post along with all your other posts. I feel less alone and ashamed knowing other people have similar feelings and thoughts that I do.

How you are transitioning through your recovery gives me hope for my own situation.

Aloha, Sunny


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