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#131670 - 12/09/04 04:54 AM A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
When I was raped, I thought what happen would make sense if I was a girl. Not that that would make it right. When I was 16, I moved back into my Dads house. I had a intense desire to know what girls felt during sex. I would put things up my ass, while fantasizing that I was a girl having sex with a guy. I still do this sometimes even now. But I mostly have normal fantasy's, and normal masturbation.
When I had the affair with the gay guy I did have fantasy's about him and me, with me both on top, and on the bottom in the fantasy's.

This may have a bearing on this. I once read a book called (The Shy Man Syndrome: Why Men Become Love-Shy and How They Can Overcome It
by Brian G. Gilmartin) The book seems to fit me to a Tee. I have always felt that my personality was more female than male, I don't seem to have that aggressiveness that males do. I have felt that I would make a better female than male. However up until the affair with the gay guy I never wanted to have sex with a guy, and in the ten years sense it happen I have not been attracted to guys. I have been attracted to girls a lot though.
So sorry to disappoint the gay guys, I don't think this has anything to do with bi, or gayness.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131671 - 12/09/04 09:04 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Well, LCB, when you're talking about love-shy guys, I think that you may have found at least a couple of brothers. Me for one. If I had only known what CSA would do to me in the pursuit of girlfriends and a mate, I wouldn't have worried so much.
I think one of the things that allowed me to feel "normal" was when I heard how many guys, who had also suffered from the fallout of CSA, were virgins when they got married.
I think that a lot of this stuff can be worked out in therapy. We talked about some of that tonight in group. That our dreams and fantasies are happenings of things not worked through.
There can be lots of variations of acting out or replication of what was done to us. In other words, we act out what was done to us in order to make sense of what happeded to us, only with us in charge instead of the power being in someone else's hands.
When we get a handle on understanding what happened to us by talking through what happened to us, the dreams and fantasies become more of what we really want without the confusion of sexual orientation that most of us experience when surviving sexual abuse.
All I'm saying, that in my opinion, we can be all over the place, sexually, until we have the proper invironment to work through the confusion we experience as after effects of childhood sexual abuse.
Hoping that you can find a therapist skilled in helping you find your way through all of this.
Ken Singer may know of a therapist in your area; PM him.

Good luck,

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#131672 - 12/09/04 07:33 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Thinks Dave, I'll have to think on what you said.

About a therapist, I guess I should talk about the navy and how the navy psychiatrists did not give me any help.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131673 - 12/09/04 08:20 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Hi Lostcowboy,
I would like to add mine opinion about this interesting topic.

It is very important what kind of the fantasies do you have. What I see is that most of them are predominantly heterosexual which is telling a lot about your sexual orientation.
Feeling of penetration in males often intensifies orgasm; this is anatomical fact that doesn't have anything with sexual orientation.
Some hetero guys like to feel it very much during masturbation or intercourse with the women, but most of them would not admit it openly (macho attitude).

I think that you just acted out with that guy.

In relation to your feeling of less aggressiveness - this could just mean that you are more emotionally sensitive guy. This could be great advantage for higher quality of relationships.

Regards,
Ivo


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#131674 - 12/10/04 02:53 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 473
Loc: UK
Hi Lostcowboy,

What Ivanhoe says makes sense to me. The affects of abuse are very complex when it comes to identity. They do affect fantasies in a major way and many of us acted out in ways that cause confusion about our identities as men, straight of gay. It may be that your acting out was a way to rewrite and try to make subconscious sense of what was done to you. Do you think that the guy you had the relationship being the same race as your abuser was just a coincidence? It would point to the possibility that this affair was an attempt to resolve the trauma by you having control.

This stuff is near impossible to sort out on our own, I am sorry that the navy psychiatrists were of no help, I go to a therapist and it really helps, so maybe trying therapy again might be an idea.

As to how you see yourself as a man, not having aggressiveness doesnít seem like a loss to me but if it is bound up with your identity then I can see why it feels like a problem.

I am sure that the gay community will manage without you so donít worry about our disappointment. ;\)

Can I add that I think your honesty is great.

Rustam


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#131675 - 12/10/04 03:45 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
brokentoys Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 149
Loc: So. California
Hey Lostcowboy,
Don't put too much stock in labels. Straight, gay, bi, heck it really doesn't even matter! The bottom line is that you live your life in such a way as to make you happy. Don't worry about being more passive. I am very passive, I'm sure that is, at least in part, due to the physical abuse I endured from birth to adulthood. That does not make me less of a man, in fact both female and male friends find it to be a nice quality. I have had many people assume I am gay right off the bat because I am not agressive. It's just not in me to be agressive. That has nothing to do with my sexual orientation. Even in sex I am passive. In fact the only times I am agressive is if someone or something threatens one of my kids. Then all he&& breaks loose! If someone feels that makes me feminine, well fine, that's their opinion. Their opinion means nothing to me. Their opinion does not make me less of a man at all. Learn to be at ease with yourself. Others can put labels on you, but don't do it to yourself. The minute you start believing in labels is the time you quite being who you really are and start living up to someone else's idea of what you should be based on their idea of societal norms. JMHO
Broken

_________________________
It's easier to go down a hill than up it but the view is much better at the top.

Arnold Bennet

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#131676 - 12/11/04 09:40 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Just cause it is late when I read your replies, I will keep this short. What a great bunch of guys you are! I will add a more full reply later.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131677 - 12/11/04 08:04 PM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
I have to say this is an interesting topic. It covers a lot.

I think I will have to seek this The Shy Man Syndrome: Why Men Become Love-Shy and How They Can Overcome Itbook by Brian G. Gilmartin out and give it a read. Thanks.

Take care,
Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#131678 - 12/12/04 03:15 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi guys you have given me a lot to think about.

Ivo, you are right in that I am a emotionally sensitive guy, I used to try to tone it down, so as to fit in better with the macho guys on the submarines. Of interest, when the guys had something bothering them they would come and discuss it with me, as I am a good listener.

Rustam
Quote:
I am sure that the gay community will manage without you so donít worry about our disappointment.

Can I add that I think your honesty is great.
Ah, a guy that still has a sense of humor, it is nice to see humor on the board, we need more of it I think. One of the things I decided on before posting here, was to be as honest as I could be. If I knowingly lie or leave something out. Then the advise that people give will in all likelihood not help me. So I would be wasting my time on the board.

Brokentoys, You are right I do put to much into labels. I am working on not doing that.

Bill_1965, It is a interesting book, most public library's have a service, where if they don't have the book you want, they can borrow it from another library. The book costs a round $70 on amazon.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131679 - 12/13/04 07:06 AM Re: A strange way to masturbate.
gs Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 24
Loc: christchurch
Having lived with what happened to me for 20years without telling anyone (until recently) I have had the same issues myself.I have been with more guys than I have girls and yet I am not physically attracted to males, and yet I still have had many encounters.In saying that I have never met a woman I have been able to get close to emotionally without scaring them away, so I convince myself that maybe I am gay and I should follow that path.When I am with a male I enjoy it at the time but as soon as it is over I can't get out of there quick enough and I tend to feel like I've done something dirty or wrong.I know in my heart that what I want is to be close to a woman and to know what it is like to actually make love to a woman, rather than just sex as I have known it.


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