Yves,

as usual, you have an impressive, if not perfect way with words.

God Bless you my friend.


Ken, I'd love to participate in your information gathering for your book, especially if it may help someone in the future.

I'm send you a PM.


Jimmer

Marc:
I am not looking to quote anyone without permission who provides their input here. I'm stating that the content of this book is for survivors ( and by the way, there is no money being made for most survivor-oriented books.) It is about helping survivors and their loved ones.

That said, I would not exploit anything or anyone. If an open discussion about bjs (in this instance) helps people clarify why they are doing what they are doing and recognize the self-defeating nature of the practice, or begin to understand the dynamics of what they are doing, it helps them establish some control over their lives.

Believe me, I am not looking to exploit anyone. I posted a couple of weeks ago that I was using quotes from survivors anonymously. If anyone sees a quote from him (even though it is posted "publically" here and without any identifying information in the book) and does not want it used, I will gladly remove it.

I intend to post sections of the book in this forum for this purpose so people can comment on it or ask, if I've used their words, to remove them.

I hope you know me well enough by now that I will never do anything to hurt a survivor.

Ken

Bravo, Ken. We applaud you and your good works. Let me assure you that the vast majority of us here know this of you without having to be told.

Hear, hear, an attaboy for Ken!

Sometimes the best thing to do is to understand when NOT to say anything.

Haven't I seen this or said this before?

Jimmer

It is about controlling someone else's penis, making them hard, and by making them ejaculate, they have gone from being controlled to controlling someone else.

I just love it when you talk clinical.

I'm going to be direct here so if you are prudish stop reading now. I'm really good at giving BJ’s and because of that I enjoy it. So the issue of control is there for me. Getting someone else off is exciting to me. Being complemented on a ‘job’ well done. And on the flip side (pun intended.) Sitting back and letting someone else do all the work is also exciting to me. But I have to tell you I just don’t think it has anything to do with SA (in my case).

I can’t say I disagree with your theray, in fact I think it makes a’lot of since, but I also think the who what and why (of acting out) is probably more complicated then just piloting someone else’s equipment.

And one final point, sometimes acting out is not acting out, it’s just get'en some.

Z

From my point of view, acting out is first of all connected with huge sexual intensity during performance.
The pleasure itself is multiplied to devastating level by different factors.
It is also connected with losing control over myself. It is something demonic and inhuman in process in which all activities are pushed aside by pure sexual drive.
When you are child and you are involved in same sex it is like you are lunched in totally unreal, rocket high orbit (and I can not say for sure did I ever land back).
In other words my sexuality was "activated" before I was ready biologically and mentally.
So there is no simple, logical explanation why I am forced to do this, rather there is huge chaos that is for the moment perfect pleasure then perfect hell, mixed with guilt and tireless sex appetite.

It is about sex instincts that are taking control over my body and mind.
It doesn't matter how much I am trying to understand process. It is on sub consciousness level and I would never have total control over it...it is just always there, hungry and ready to hunt for itself.

Ivo

Gentlemen:
Let me address a few things here. First of all, everyone is here for healing. I've said before that everyone is damaged by the SA and reacts in different ways. One survivor may react to a perceived threat (self-defined) by lashing out, while another may flee for safety.

Doesn't mean one is better than the other. Support and understanding, whether you personally like or dislike a fellow survivor, should be the order of the day. Attacks don't help anyone's growth and healing.

I believe we have the makings of another good thread here, if we can keep the discussion civil.

That said, I want to address Brian's comments (if they were too graphic for me to handle, then I'm in the wrong line of work.)

What I'm trying to differentiate here is the gay sexual attraction vs. a more heterosexually oriented person doing the same activity (bj). I can certainly understand the arousal feedback loop in a sexual act, whether gay or straight. (You do this, s/he gets more aroused, which gets you more aroused, getting him/her more aroused, etc.)

I think there is certainly a motive of "positive" power in giving a bj to a peer (or giving/getting oral sex in a hetero situation.) There is a good feeling being responsible for the pleasure of the partner.

The difference I'm trying to refine is the negative use of the same phenomenon in an abusive situation. That is, the abuser is determined to use the victim's arousal as a means of taking control and manipulating him into an orgasm.

To Marc and others who might question why I'm doing this:

I think if I can use my extensive experience of working with adult and juvenile offenders with the work I've been doing with male survivors, I can help (in this specific case) those who keep wondering if they are gay because they act out by doing bjs. I think there may be a similar dynamic between the guy I'm working with who used to bring his young male victims to orgasm or ejaculation. There also may be variants of this "payoff" in the self-defeating acting out behaviors that we hear around here from time to time.

This is only one area that I hope can be addressed for survivors. I certainly want to keep the discussion going and identify new topics regarding sexuality in this forum and other areas, such as intimacy issues, trust, and a ton of other subjects that are discussed here at MS. I will probably post sections of the book for input from survivors at some point. In any event, nobody is being quoted with any identification, not even pseudonyms.

Brian: Yesterday was particularly good. Too hot and humid to mow the lawn or go to the gym. However, it was just right to be sitting on the screened porch with laptop and typing away. Hope to have more productive days like that.

Ken

Ken,

You’ve said something rather thought provoking. When you talked about self-defeating behaviors. Is it possible that sexualy “acting out” is merely a manifestation of something bigger?

I see a’lot of “self-defeating behaviors” in my self. I also see a’lot of latent self-defeating behaviors in the posts here. In fact it’s something I see a’lot here.

Or, is it possible that the low self-loathing feeling some survivors have after what is commonly called “acting out” is just the reaction to the fear a'lot of survivors have about sex?

Wow, this whole line of thought could go on and on so I better end here.

Z

Not sure what you mean by that, Brian. Like to hear more and expand on that topic.

In my experience, a lot of folks have "self loathing" after engaging in a self-defeating behavior (say engaging in anon sex in a bookstore). Is that what you are talking about or something different?

Ken