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#131558 - 09/08/04 01:00 PM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
daniel_ Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 41
Loc: Washington, DC
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan88:
Here's my two cents on it. I don't think the question of what's "normal" is really the issue so much as the fact that we survivors always want to know what "normal" is so that we can act the part.

I think the biggest effect is self-doubt. Whoever or whatever you turn out to be sexually, if you are molested as a child, I think you always wonder "is it being molested that made me who I am?" And that makes you want to not embrace that particular desire. So you're never comfortable in your own skin.

Say you've got two guys who both get excited by eating chocolate ice cream and having sex at the same time, and one of them is a survivor. Well, the non-survivor will happily go through life eating chocalate ice cream and fucking his brains out with a big smile on his face.

The survivor, on the other hand, will get so obsessed by what people will think if they catch him eating chocolate ice cream that he can't enjoy it at all. And then, with the "abnormal" desire bottled up, it's just a question of what way will he find to offset it.
Great post. So true.


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#131559 - 09/08/04 06:42 PM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Once I realized how I was being abused, it changed how I felt about sex.

It was about power.
It was about control.
It was about getting what you wanted.
It was about f**king, not "making love."
It was about not knowing whether I was gay or straight.
It was about not caring.

Everything sex was supposed to be about, it wasn't anymore to me.

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#131560 - 09/08/04 07:43 PM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
brokentoys Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 149
Loc: So. California
You know FF, your topic is very interesting. It lends an almost esoteric quality to the board. How did it distort my ideas of sex? I really don't know because to know that I would have had to not gone through the SA to see how things would have developed differently. I do know that for some reason (and for this I blame the SA) I had many identity crisises regarding, well actually I was going to say sexual preference, but that's not really right. I have had affairs with men a few times and each time for some unexplained reason I ended up in the corner crying afterwards. And the problem was, I had no idea why! I never had that problem with women. Of course I have had very few sexual partners actually, 5 women and 4 men. Not very active by a lot of standards. Sex has never been a huge priority for me. Certainly I enjoy it at the time, but it's just not the end-all for me. I often wonder if this too is due to the SA. Since I have not lived without it, I just don't know. I am not really concerned with a societal "normal", my only concern is with MY normal, and unfortunatly, I just don't know what that is!
BT

_________________________
It's easier to go down a hill than up it but the view is much better at the top.

Arnold Bennet

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#131561 - 09/08/04 11:15 PM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
Kenn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan88:

I think the biggest effect is self-doubt. Whoever or whatever you turn out to be sexually, if you are molested as a child, I think you always wonder "is it being molested that made me who I am?" And that makes you want to not embrace that particular desire. So you're never comfortable in your own skin.

Say you've got two guys who both get excited by eating chocolate ice cream and having sex at the same time, and one of them is a survivor. Well, the non-survivor will happily go through life eating chocalate ice cream and fucking his brains out with a big smile on his face.

The survivor, on the other hand, will get so obsessed by what people will think if they catch him eating chocolate ice cream that he can't enjoy it at all. And then, with the "abnormal" desire bottled up, it's just a question of what way will he find to offset it.
Wow, a very helpful illustration. And it was backed up in a conversation I had with a friend (female) today. It's not just gay male survivors who are ambivalent about relating to men!

_________________________
"This above all; to thine own self be true."

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

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#131562 - 09/12/04 09:37 AM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
FF,

Quote:
I noticed that not much is mentioned about the boys you were before the abuse. I wonter if becasue like me you cannot remember much about that. I seem to have almost no memories of my childhood. I just know that when I am in the company of kids, playing, I have a great sense of loss and sadness. But I also learn what it means to be a child and just be.
HHHmmm....I can remember my boyhood from five years up until the abuse, I was a real happy go lucky kid, living in a World of everything being magic, and beautiful, the paradox is, I can't remember so much afterwards.

I know, that I still was the same kid inside, just that my "World", had now become such a weird place, there was a lot more danger and fear, I had to learn a lot about surviving, I did not have the will to play so much, I always needed time to be alone and deal with so much crap.

I was liked at school, boys wanted to be friends, but I could not find so much time to play, so they thought I was rebuking frienship with them, so they turned to bullying me, but I soon learned how to fight them, simply because I had enough shit to put up with.

It is really a wonderful thing to see kids playing today, and you know, also, I can feel so sad, I always think of what might have been

take care

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#131563 - 09/14/04 07:55 PM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Dan
"can I eat my chocolate ice cream now?"

I love your analogy, it makes perfect sense to me.
Yes, I do feel guilty about enjoying the 'ice cream' which is why I would always ask permission to taste it.

Sex for me is still deeply ingrained with fantasies and images developed from my abuse.
How can I possibly accept these images when I try to make love to a woman I deeply love? the two things just don't go together, I feel as though I'm tainting her with 'them'

Would I - could I - do I want, to add some 'spice' to our love life, would it actually make any difference?
I don't think 'extra spice' would have that much effect to be honest, my fantasy involves other men - and that's out!
I can, and do, fantasize about women I know sometimes, and that works a bit. But calling my wife by someone elses name, or admitting I'm fantasizing about my neighbours wife isn't going to appreciated much either.

What's left?
Role play? been there - done that; with my abusers. Non starter.
Dressing up? see above! - and when I was acting out as well.
Talking dirty maybe? No, 'they' had me doing that as well.
A bit of mild S&M ? I have no interest whatsoever, never tried it and it's never entered a fantasy even.

So, now what?
About the only thing left is 'normal' sex within a loving relationship.
And 'they' managed to fuck that up as well.
One of the things my main abuser loved me to do was talk. I was groomed into telling him how much I was enjoying it, asking him what he wanted me to do, I was suggesting new ( to me anyway ) things to try - at 11yo
Consequently I can't even say "I love you" when I make love to my wife, how can I possibly ask if she likes what I'm doing or suggest something?
That puts me on the same level as my abusers - in my mind.
I've taken this through therapy and made small progress, but it still feels alien.
Is the progress worth it, yes it is. As is my committment to keep working at it.

Sex is a powerful thing, and a great reinforcer.
If we learn faulty messages in our first sexual experiences then they stick like glue.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#131564 - 09/15/04 09:01 AM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
daniel_ Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 41
Loc: Washington, DC
Quote:
Originally posted by crisispoint:
Once I realized how I was being abused, it changed how I felt about sex.

It was about power.
It was about control.
It was about getting what you wanted.
It was about f**king, not "making love."
It was about not knowing whether I was gay or straight.
It was about not caring.

Everything sex was supposed to be about, it wasn't anymore to me.

Scot
Do you mean that realizing the abuse made you think that way?

Triggers which send me into belts of depression and anxiety are related to sexual and emotional intimacy. Together. I have been working on that with a therapist.

But now I find that I second and third guess every tiny thing concerning sex, sexual orientation, intimacy, feelings---making links to the abuse. I am at the point where I don't know if it's all valid or not. I wonder, as a survivor, if I will ever be able to have a relationship. Will my linking every motive to abuse always ruin it?

Abuse, and generally being inappropriately sexualized my entire life--by males and females--how can I possibly ever know that I am not acting out of my neuroses?

When is a cigar just a cigar?


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#131565 - 09/15/04 12:51 PM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Daniel:
You said:
Quote:

But now I find that I second and third guess every tiny thing concerning sex, sexual orientation, intimacy, feelings---making links to the abuse. I am at the point where I don't know if it's all valid or not. I wonder, as a survivor, if I will ever be able to have a relationship. Will my linking every motive to abuse always ruin it?
I think the main problem we have is one of trust etc. We have to trust our own instincts and the responses of others. For too long our feelings were contrived and meant for the benefit of others and never ourselves. Sex is all about sharing completely. Not only the only thing you truly own (your body) but also what which makes you unique (your mind). And this is not a one way street it has to be mutual in any sexual situation. Your Perp did not give a rats ass about your mind; only your body. And communiication was to higthen the pleasure for them.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#131566 - 09/15/04 01:23 PM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
daniel_ Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 41
Loc: Washington, DC
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Church:

For too long our feelings were contrived and meant for the benefit of others and never ourselves. [/QUOTE]

I still do that. I find myself behaving in certain ways, saying or not saying certain things based on what the response will be or how it will make the other person respond or feel about me. Not what I really feel. Maybe one day I will know what MY feelings really are.

The only times in my life when this has not been an issue, in a sexual context, is when I had had completely causal sex where you both knew there was no relationship involved and you would never see them again. I don't want to fall into those habits again. Ever. But I loose all sense of self in a real relationship. It is just too much. So I have to sabatage it, or otherwise end it or all the emotion is overwhelming. Add to this the sexual confusion, and the reenacting the abuse and I feel I am practically doomed. Ugh.

I'm afraid I may have gone off-topic. My apologies.


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#131567 - 11/28/04 09:55 AM Re: Distorted "Ideas" about the S-word.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Interesting thread, well worth bringing back to the top of the heap. When I have some more time I will come back and talk about me some more.

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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