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#131517 - 08/19/04 01:05 PM Re: Is it just denial?
Aden Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
A lot of confusion comes from trying to accept labels that just don't fit.

Aden


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#131518 - 08/19/04 02:20 PM Re: Is it just denial?
FastForward Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 188
Loc: US
Speaking only just for myself as well, how does one know that one moves from "denial" to acceptance/giving in. Does letting go for the "struggle" really mean the right choice? That's what I wonder.

_________________________
FastForward

L&P - always.

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#131519 - 08/19/04 02:27 PM Re: Is it just denial?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Fast Forward. Moving from Denial to accptance/giving in.

NEVER GIVING IN MY BROTHER. We must all accept the facts of what happened. They Are real and can never be changed and are a part of our history. So we cannot change the facts. What we can change is our beliefs and feelings around that fact. It was not our fault It is not our shame I am not alone I can cope I am ok and decent I am not going to let this shit screw up the rest of my life. I will deal with it

It is when this starts to happen that you move from denial or being a perpetual victim

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#131520 - 08/19/04 02:47 PM Re: Is it just denial?
FastForward Offline
Member

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 188
Loc: US
Here is where I have a problem in my reality Mikey: we were not responible when we were kids. Ok. No problem there. I am an adult now and still do lots of stupid things. When I start putting lables on them to justify and feel better, what good is it?

_________________________
FastForward

L&P - always.

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#131522 - 08/19/04 03:50 PM Re: Is it just denial?
Dan88 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
Interesting issue. Like you, I more or less dealt with this years ago but reached a different conclusion. When we were being actively abused, the perp would often bring my brother and me to places where gay men cruise. This is kind of painful to recall, because it's an area I've blanked on a little bit. I definitely recall being there and some of what happened. But a lot of the nitty gritty specifics are lost in the fog. I'm guessing that nothing happened other than watching, but I suspect I may be misremembering to some degree. Whatever.

In any case, as a younger adult, I was drawn to these places. I frequently went to watch guys walking around and meeting, though it wasn't a place where you saw anything overt happening. Just guys on the street meeting up and moving on elsewhere. On a couple occasions I tried to hook up with a guy, but it was totally unsuccessful. The fact was, I was excited by the knowledge of what was going on, the secrecy and illicitness of it. But actually participating was a complete turn off. For me, only a woman can actually get the equipment working right. So there it is. Does that make me bisexual? I've never thought so as I'm not attracted to men, per se. By the same token, I've attempted to have sex with men in sorting this out. So maybe bisexual does apply. You draw the distinction between being bisexual and acting out. So I guess I've acted out bisexually without being bisexual.

I think because I've never been homophobic, the issue never really troubled me. I can see, however, how it would be very difficult to be gay and want to be straight and have the nagging question of did this abuse make me something I don't want to be. For me, whatever I did in a bisexual vein is so insignificant compared to some of the truly self-destructive things I've done, it's just not a worry anymore.

As you point out, we are all impacted by our abuse, just like everyone is impacted by what happens to them as a child. Some of the effects are good, some are bad, and some just are. This one just is.


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#131523 - 08/19/04 04:19 PM Re: Is it just denial?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
There is a load of confusion through childhood, ordinary kids have a tough time realising where they are going, hormones changing the body etc, but this is a total new ball game when you deal with this, and have been abused, it's a double whammy going through puberty!!!!

I cannot recall ever fancying a boy, but remember on holiday with the school, a friend enticing me onto the bed, there were three of us in the room, the other boy did it with him, I was disgusted, and hurt, as my abuse was still so fresh, and the holiday was to take my mind off it, I said I would tell, I wouldn't have, but they smashed my camera, and stole money, so I had a rotten holiday.

Funny, just how best friends do this, and lose you as a friend, then wonder why?

On the other side, my mind has recently been watching gay movies, I never knock anyone for their sexuality, what will be, will be, but I was watching this stuff, though it doesn't turn me on.

I suppose part of my mind just goes off balance and just have to see it, as I know it goes on, and wonder what it is like to see, confused?

I am but then again????

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#131524 - 08/19/04 06:10 PM Re: Is it just denial?
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
This discussion is just what I'd hoped it would be, us guys discussing what happened to us and how it may/has affected us as we continued to grow up.
Ever since my therapist said that it was his opinion that we are either heterosexual or homosexual, and all of the other stuff in between is from the confusing signals from the abuse we suffered, I've thought about bringing that comment up here, to see what you think and to see how would you answer his theory.
Just to add a comment before I have to take off for an eye exam, it was my thought that I was heterosexual but so affected by my 8th grade teacher and his abuse of me that I did some acting out with other friends my age and was afraid of being gay. My Army experience was a positive one and was only uncomfortable when I couldn't go out with the guys to find girls. Helping out in one of the orphanages probably had something to do with that.
Anyway, haunting fantasies of gay sex with my friends, and the memories of those fantasies since then has caused me all sorts of guilt, confusion and depression thinking that I would never fit in.
Since my therapist has suggested that we are one or the other, after we work through our confusion, is the reason that I suggested this topic. Is it worth it? Does it just make us more depressed? Is there any truth in it? Should we waste our time thinking about what may not be true?
Hoping that this stimulates some thought and not feelings of, "oh, no, not something else to think about!!"
For me, it answers so much. I have been so in love with Ranata, wanted our kids as much as she did, but now that I'm going through this recovery thing, maybe now, I'll get some answers.
Thanks guys,
David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#131525 - 08/19/04 07:01 PM Re: Is it just denial?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
double posting

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#131526 - 08/19/04 07:27 PM Re: Is it just denial?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I lived with this confusion for over 30 years, I think I have it mostly resolved now.

My abuse ended about my 15th birthday, that was the last sex with a male I had until about 1997 or 98 when I turned my fantasies into reality. By that time I'd been married for nearly 25 years.
I have had more male sex 'partners' than female in my 51 years.

But I have never looked at any man and fancied him or desired sex with him. When acting out it was just the sex act that I desired, specifically giving bj's.

In a way that acting out confirmed me being hetero, because I didn't relate to the stranger at all, I knew no names and can't remember one thing about them, it became easier for me to see during therapy that I wasn't gay.

I don't deny the pleasures of gay sex, but for me I need emotional involvement as well. Giving some filthy old bastard a bj doesn't have that, it doesn't even have the sexual pleasure ( there's a surprise! :rolleyes: ) that I imagined it would due to my overpowering fantasies. All it had was reinforcement of my feelings of self hatered and low self esteem. But I didn't figure that out all by myself, I needed therapy.

So, my view is that being gay, bi or hetero is down to the feelings we have for another person, the true, emotional feelings.
I know some people are promiscuous with little bad effect on them, and if someone enjoys uncomplicated sex for the simple act it is then that's ok. But I wasn't enjoying the sex, and I certainly didn't fancy the creeps I met or feel any emotional link to them.
I just imagined that I might find it.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#131527 - 08/19/04 09:01 PM Re: Is it just denial?
CFO Dave Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 104
Loc: Millis MA
Quote:
So I guess I've acted out bisexually without being bisexual.
Dan

I knew I wasn't gay but I too acted out with men. Never really liked it but it put me in my place. In my case, the equipment did work. But it was more like an adiction than anything else.

Dave

_________________________
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
-Madame Swetchine

"The soul that is within me no man can degrade."
-Frederick Douglas

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