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#131470 - 08/17/04 11:04 PM Open for business
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
New topic area!

Due to popular demand, we are setting up a new topic area, Sexual Identity Issues.

This area is to deal with sexual problems that are not otherwise in the Gay Survivors forum.

It might be about confused feelings of sexuality (am I straight, bi, gay?), or sexual behaviors that are confusing. For those who are struggling with compulsive masturbation, feelings of acting out on children, At Risk is the place to deal with those behaviors.

We will opt to move topics to appropriate areas when necessary. Since this is a new area, we will probably move things that perhaps shouldn't be moved in the beginning until we figure things out. So, please bear with us. We don't yet have a moderator(s), and I'm going to ask all mods to let me know if they want to be involved with this one.

So, let's roll, but please be patient as we work things out.

There will be no sexual solicitation in this or any MS forums. If you are found to be soliciting anyone for sex (cyber or otherwise), you will be banned from this site.

Ken


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#131471 - 08/18/04 06:25 PM Re: Open for business
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thank you very much Ken. You are a kind and compassionate man and I have a lot of respect for you.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#131472 - 08/18/04 07:02 PM Re: Open for business
Rick Goodwin Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 56
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
Brilliant work, team! Thank you, Ken! I feel that just another chapter in my life is embraced by MaleSurvivor!

Damn, why was this site not here 30 years ago? \:\)

Courage to all my brothers who are exploring this issue for the first time. And if these brothers at not yet members of the organization, perhaps this is yet another reminder of this resource for us all. Please join to help make it stronger.

Cheers, Rick

_________________________
Rick Goodwin, MSW RSW
Executive Director
The Men's Project/Le projet pour hommes
Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
"Helping men and their families build better lives"
www.themensproject.ca

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#131473 - 08/23/04 05:17 AM Re: Open for business
fusionoflove Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/03/04
Posts: 112
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Mr. Singer,

Great idea on starting this forum. When I first visited this site, this is exactly what I was looking for at the time. Although I've found other outlets, this can help people now and in the future.

I thought I was crazy during the beginning of my recovery. Hell, even before I fessed up to myself and to a friend about what happened to me. Adult male survivors, as far as I have read, biggest issues come out of confusion over sexuality. Thanks so much for adding this. To anyone checking this forum out because you've had some of the same issues I would also recommend every article on this website. It helped me tremendously.

Thanks again and take it easy,
Fusion

This is great though, I don't know if I can help child sexual abuse victims with these issues, but I can at least provide insight from an adult male rape victim. Hopefully, it can help everyone


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#131474 - 06/20/05 12:17 AM Re: Open for business
FEELNLOWBRO Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/05
Posts: 22
There is a part of me that says I can never be accepted by other men as male, the belief that there is something, anything, no matter how seemingly minor, that will disqualify me from being accepted by the other guys as male. In this part of myself I am still like at the beginnings of my teens, wanting the warm acceptance of other males in my group, which doesn't and didn't exist. One of the key areas where I have this fear about something at root being missing or incomplete or insufficient is in going to the gym to compete with other men; I can go and play but I feel the deep fear of competition, like I have to psychologically destroy the other male and not be humiliated, which I cannot stand. I also fear going to the shower rooms and being seen.

I know this sounds wierd but when I go to a pool and smell the chlorine it reminds me of the very unpleasant feeling I had in possibly competing with other males.

It is hard for me to accept psychologically and physically that I am adequate to being accepted as a male "by the other boys" of my past and still cotninuing as a thought to this daya. I will write more later.


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#131475 - 08/29/05 10:19 AM Re: Open for business
BARZEAL Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/28/05
Posts: 3
Loc: usa
ken singer, well i am confused already. i understand sexual identiy issues and how complex they can be, however i don't understand why and how "acting out on children" would be part of sexual identity issues--that to me is a police matter..i am new to this MS sight and to me this is upsetting to hear that MS has a place for perps to work on their sickness. i am truly upset

_________________________
Truth will free my sole, love will let it soar

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#131476 - 08/29/05 01:16 PM Re: Open for business
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Barzeal:
Please note that there is not a place here for people for acting out on children. The Sexual Identity forum is NOT for that. Read over the welcome:

"For those who are struggling with compulsive masturbation, feelings of acting out on children, At Risk is the place to deal with those behaviors."

FEELINGS of acting out on children can be discussed in At Risk. Feelings are not reportable to the police. We would rather have someone discuss his feelings in the restricted forum At Risk than to keep silent and possibly act on those feelings. Prevention is better than cleaning up the aftermath.

Please don't be upset because we are not protecting perpetrators.

Ken Singer


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#131477 - 11/29/05 10:34 PM Re: Open for business
Roderick Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 22
Loc: California
Mr. Singer-
Upon looking over this wesite further I came upon
your new forum. Thank you.
As a grown man of 45, who was first abused sexually at the age of 4 by a man, I am here to tell you that I have never felt totally connested to my maleness. I sometimes have experiences where I don't feel inside that I look like the man I am on the outside, and I am
considered to be attractive, very masculine looking man.
After years of therapy, I still grapple with this isssue oif identification, although I feel most comfortable with a woman, I still have strong homosexual fantasies. At times I am
accepting of how this is how my life played itself out, but there are other times when I'm emotionally unbalanced and things seem to feel out of control.
I am currently not in therapy, bu this website
is already giving me an opportunity to express myself and that is very helpful right now in my life.

_________________________

Roderick

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#131478 - 12/21/05 05:03 AM Re: Open for business
Dead Man Talking Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/21/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Pacific Northwest
I, too, grapple with identity issues and have strong homo-erotic fantasies.

Michael

_________________________
A cold, self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute. But, of course, it is better to be neither. -- C.S. Lewis

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#131479 - 12/28/05 04:02 AM Re: Open for business
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
This is from my book (in progress so please don't reprint it):

“What if I think about penises a lot? Does that mean I’m gay?” Not necessarily. The man described above associated sexual pleasure with his mother’s (and later his partners’) legs, shoes and feet. If a boy experiences powerful sexual feeling while sucking his abuser’s penis, or having his own penis licked, or touching or being touched on the penis, he may make a similar connection. In addition, as teenagers discovering masturbation, we reinforce the pleasurable feelings with the sight and feel of our own penises. So, with a “normal” (that is, non-abusive) sexual history, we will have a neutral to good association with penises. Our penis can make us feel good, powerful, and alleviate boredom.

But when the sexual feelings are forced, unwanted, confusing, even painful, the association with the penis can be contaminated. Some men hate their penis because it “betrayed” them by getting erect in an abusive situation. Because the male abuser, particularly when there are negative feelings towards him, has a penis, some survivors may associate the penis with the hurt, betrayal, pain, humiliation, shame, and guilt from the abuse. Think of the confusion one might feel from having these negative emotions about the abuse or abuser, and trying to feel good about one’s sexuality and penis.

One important consideration is to look at why you desire to act out sexually with other men. If the acts are reenactments of your abuse, it may be because the trauma is still unresolved and the sex is a way of returning to the trauma, perhaps hoping on an unconscious level, that this time you are not the helpless one. It may also be that you have been taught or conditioned that doing this behavior will bring closeness, acceptance or some other emotional need that you may not have in your life at the moment.


Ken


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#131480 - 12/28/05 10:22 AM Re: Open for business
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Ken,

From the very beginning of my abuse history I recall disliking the fact that I was a boy, with predictable results for my self-esteem.

So another dimension to what you are saying: One thing that caught my childish attention was that the first thing the abuser went for the first time he abused me was my penis - sticking his hand down my underpants and then other things. On later occasions that remained the focus of his attention. So it was my penis, the symbol of my identity as a boy, that had attracted the abuse. I hated the idea that I had one even before I started feeling betrayed by erections and so on.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#131481 - 02/17/06 09:45 PM Re: Open for business
RWB Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 1
Loc: Phila, Pa
Other than adolescents, liars, and total egotists, I have never met a man who consistently liked his image as a male. Whether you are Gay, straight, bi, or in transition... the culture teaches you to compete with others, and that you are never adequate. The fact is you are adequate when you claim your own identity and you will always be inadequate when you compare yourself to another guy. Even the bulk boys in the gym feel inadequate. They just have acquired a range of defenses to mask them, and if the truth be known they may be much more vulneralbe in their hearts than their bulk suggests.

I am surprised with all this attention to Pee-pees. The penis is just neutral thing. Not good, bad, or necessarily the source of pleasure or pain.. Even without an abuse history, the penis will be a source of great disappointment in the course of a lifetime. The poor baby will get sick, injured, might not work...etc. But the penis will also be a great source of comfort and pleasure to yourself and others with whom you chose to be intimate. Please please.. try not to be so frightened, scared, hostile, or angry with your penis. Make up... if it has been the source of abuse by others or yourself, make up.. and forgive it.. reown it.. and promise not protect it as sacred in your life from this point on. And keep it out of the male competion game... It is what it is as you are. And that is just enough for those who wish to love you.

Dr.Ralph

_________________________
RWB

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#131482 - 02/18/06 12:04 AM Re: Open for business
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Forum Readers:
May I introduce you to Dr Ralph, my friend and colleague, the "go to guy" I refer to for questions about sexuality, gender, orientation, image, and lots of other areas related to maleness. (I suspect he also is fluent in femaleness as well.)

Ralph is funny, irreverant but extremly knowledgable. You can post your comments, observations, questions and confusion here, and hopefully get a straight (or gay or bi) answer from him.

Welcome to MS, Ralph.
Ken


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#131483 - 02/18/06 07:01 AM Re: Open for business
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Ralph,

Welcome - My penis and I liked and benefitted from your comments. ;\)

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#131484 - 02/18/06 08:14 PM Re: Open for business
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
how can i ,or do i even want to feel like a man when men have done such horrible things to me ,where does a male fit in if not with other males ?adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#131485 - 02/19/06 06:47 AM Re: Open for business
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Your response to abuse as you describe it above is shared by many survivors new to recovery. May I also say, but not in any patronizing way, that I see this idea a lot among young survivors who are just coming to terms with their manhood and deciding what it all means for them.

Bro, you were abused by an adult male, sure, but maybe it would be helpful to consider the difference between that and a man. Any guy who is physically mature can have sex, for example, but so can animals. After a certain age we are classified as "adults" and society lets us think that with this age transition something special happens that gives us all sorts of new privileges and responsibilities - as if, with our 18th or 21 birthday or whenever it is, we suddenly become more able to deal with all this stuff.

That's nonsense so far as I have seen. At the age of 21 I wasn't doing anything that I wasn't already doing at the age of 17, and I wasn't doing it any better - not sex, not relationships, not life. I don't think I really started to become a "man" until I was nearly 30.

Becoming a man as I see it means learning to define and justify your boundaries in the various aspects of your life and then living by these limits because you know them to be right. A man lives by what he believes and treats others with compassion and respect; he stands by what he believes, but is willing to listen to others, test his ideas, and accept challenges meant in good faith. He understands that learning never ends and that wisdom can come in many forms.

So I would propose to you, Adam, that while you were abused by an adult male, you were not abused by a man as I would define the term. You are right to be cautious about adult males for the time being. You have a lot of work to do where your recovery is concerned, and I can see that your ability to trust has been pretty much wrecked. That isn't your fault - you are right, as I said, to be careful.

But I hope you will think about this and see that what you need to do is look for men and allow them into your life. And I know what your next question will be: How do I know that someone is a man I can trust?

We all keep learning this throughout our lifes bro, but just a short rule of thumb that I find useful: Look at how guys treat others and deal with them. How would you feel if he treated YOU like that? What would the world be like if EVERYONE behaved like that?

It's late and I need to get to bed, but I did want to finish this one. We all need others to fertilize our thinking, inspire us, and lend us strength. You are a good guy already and are showing a lot of the traits you will need to become a man in the sense I am proposing here. As you make more progress and gain in confidence you will begin to recognize others who see the world as you do and seem to offer you good ideas and models you can follow. You will be safe with such men in your life.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#131486 - 02/20/06 08:10 AM Re: Open for business
sojourner Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 4
Loc: washington
I have been brousing the web site for the last few days. Trying to muster the courage to sign on again. I haven't posted in a long time - two years or so. I have been numbing out with an affair, an older coworker for the last 3 and half years, it ended by my initiative two weeks ago. My drug now gone, I've come back to you all, full of shame and remorse but hopeful that I can begin again to work on my recovery. I know you are all here for me,I need you and I'm grateful you are here.

The topic of sexual/"gender" identity has always been one I have always struggled with. I too have never felt like one on the guys. I never really felt like one of my peers for that matter the secret separated me from them - if nothing else child sexual abuse is lonely. Maybe that's one of the reasons I chose to have an affair with a woman nearly twenty years older than me...

My father left shortly after my abuse from an older cousin. Although no one knew at that time of my abuse, Dad had been concerned that I was not "masculine" enough - whatever that means when you're 10 - Dad's solution to this problem was to leave his stash of pornography to his ten year old son. Hoping that he could ward off any possible homosexual biases that my sweet childlike nature might sugest. Although I'm not gay it certainly added to the sexual/gender identity issue that many children face. Crossdressing and masterbation with dad's porn became my solace, it too was isolating, shameful and lonely, The image of the strong independant male was scary for me. Although I participated in athletics, I too was uncomfortable with competition and the comraderie that comes with being with other men. I just wanted to opt out. I became very ambivalent about my gender and my age, trying to be the sensitive male and more mature for my age. I married young, to a girl that I could play a more mature person to, a woman who was not interested intimacy emotional or sexual, a woman that had no problem with me taking on the more traditional female role in a relationship, cooking, cleaning, etc. In some ways I needed her to be that way.

My affair did have some positives to it- at least as I see it. I was appreciated as a man. something I didn't get/ allow from my wife. I did experience the emotional intimacy that comes from a shared experience with someone I love, as disfuctional as it may have been.


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#131487 - 03/01/06 04:26 AM Re: Open for business
John Oarc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 633
Loc: Louisiana
Ken, thanks so much for this section. This gives us a place to post regarding what I think is the greatest problem in most of our lives "sex" even people who have not been molested or abused have problems with it.

Thanks goes out to MS also.

Thanks,

John

_________________________
Whatever It Takes, God


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#131488 - 07/07/06 03:17 AM Re: Open for business
hikers1116 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 1
Loc: LI NY
I am new here, became a member just last week and I have been browsing the boards to get a feel of just were I fit in. I must agree that this is the topic I struggle with the most. I am glad there will be an area where one can share their thoguhs and feelings on the subject. Some of the key elements I picked up and identified immediately from reading the previous post are:

disliking your penis
pornagraphy
isolation
shame and guilt
Trusting other males (really trusting them)
Dad thinking I was not male enough
thinking of penises or obsessing about them

I also struggle with defining my sexuality because of the following statement made by Ken, "One important consideration is to look at why you desire to act out sexually with other men. If the acts are reenactments of your abuse, it may be because the trauma is still unresolved and the sex is a way of returning to the trauma, perhaps hoping on an unconscious level, that this time you are not the helpless one. It may also be that you have been taught or conditioned that doing this behavior will bring closeness, acceptance or some other emotional need that you may not have in your life at the moment."

I can not tell all of you how much I want to believe this to be true and yet at the same time I tell myself that this may just be wishful thinking and that I should just accept that I may be gay; however I also wish things were that simple.

I long for an embrace from a male who is physically stronger than me, that embrace can make one feel so safe and yet It's terrifying at the same time because they could easily that control. I believe this longing is from not having a father figure around in my early childhood. I believe this feeling was the one that left me vulnaberable to abuse because I would seek out older males to fill that void. Following blindly and trusting always to be rewarded with betrayal, pain, abuse, horror, emptyness, heartache I can go on and on.

I guess I made this long enough for now. It felt good to be able to get that out. Guess I will be regular poster on this forum.

Thanks all it's good to have a safe place to express one self with out fear.


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#131489 - 07/07/06 03:19 PM Re: Open for business
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Quote:
at the same time I tell myself that this may just be wishful thinking and that I should just accept that I may be gay;
I don't know if I stated it clearly in the part you quoted from me, but certainly is ok to be gay (or as Seinfeld used to say, "Not that there's anything wrong with that"). My point is that sometimes people who are not comfortable with their attraction/interest/arousal to penises are not truly gay but are fixated by the abuse experience and it is not about orientation.

It is also sometimes an attempt to re-enact the abuse in order to change the outcome of being controlled/abused from the past. In any event, sexuality in all its dimensions is a complex issue.

Glad this place can be of help. Welcome.
Ken


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#131490 - 07/08/06 04:37 AM Re: Open for business
Cres Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
Dear Ken,

Thank you for your insightful words. They are truly helpful and touch on some key issues for me (and others, I am sure).

_________________________
Cres

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#131491 - 07/20/06 08:04 AM Re: Open for business
keeper Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 3
well.... it's not okay to be gay if you're not gay. I've had the same problems that Hikers wrote of above, and I've been struggling with them for some time -- intensely over the past several months. The presumption that if you have sex with a man, then you are gay is... oddly... wrong. I mean, on the face of things, the answer is, of course we are at least bi-sexual; but I've started to even dismiss that notion. I seek intimacy and love from women. In fact, I have had incredible relationships with women. If anything, I've thrown too much of myself toward them.... But, I have over the past couple of years started to investigate my sexual feelings toward men. And I've found that the only attraction that I can identify is that "recreation" of abuse that happened when I was 14 over a period of about 18 months. There is no doubt in my mind now that I have to resolve some old issues; BUT much doubt still remains in my mind about how I will ultimately learn to deal with men. While I have had a problem for many years in dealing with my male friends, I have not acknowledged it. Now, I realize that I must. I sorta look forward to the journey. But it is a strange one that seems kind of lonely right now.... I mean, to my knowledge none of my friends (or my brother) were sexually abused to the degree that I was. I doubt they'd get it. Or do they even need to know? It's the questions this stuff raises that are the most difficult. One leads to another. I wonder where normal life begins.


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#131492 - 07/21/06 06:58 AM Re: Open for business
TexasCowboy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Houston, TX
the penis the man doth not make. Why do I feel that all men are pigs?

_________________________
The strongest hearts are sometimes broken,
As the deepest thoughts arent always soken,
and the greatest wounds we hide inside ourselves where they never show

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#131493 - 08/17/06 05:16 AM Re: Open for business
grayson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 19
Loc: central new york
apparently i have been writing in the wrong section. all these comments are exactly what i have been thinking for the last 15 years of my life. i dont think i am gay but have "gay" thoughts and feelings and fit, no matter how hard i try, into the "gay" steriotype. its scary how much these comments are just like what i feel. the need to compete to the point of breaking the opponent. how much rage wells up inside me, as well as fear, when i see a male that is more "masculine"/attractive/older-looking.
i have spent my whole life trying to avoid all this. by hating men, avoiding them in all situations, trying to make myself look like i am still a boy. i have the body of a 13 year old, but i am so much older than that.
i am scared to start a new "friendship" with another man, since they have ALL lead to pain and fear and ultimatly ended very poorly.
As the last post was in mid july i wonder if there will be any response to this or if this is no longer a subject of concern for anyone else on the planet. it is, however, very much a subject of concern for me.
please help

_________________________
"being fearless when you're winning isn't courage."
http://www.mensurviving.com

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#131494 - 08/17/06 08:02 AM Re: Open for business
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi Grayson, This topic was originaly just Ken Singer, stating that the section was open. Other people have posted in here, but most of them have been just thinking Ken for starting this section. The best way of getting the guys to reply to you, is to start a new topic.

Quote:
Due to popular demand, we are setting up a new topic area, Sexual Identity Issues.
This area is to deal with sexual problems that are not otherwise in the Gay Survivors forum.
It might be about confused feelings of sexuality (am I straight, bi, gay?), or sexual behaviors that are confusing.
This is what basically goes in here, but I have put topics in here that pertained to my identity, and Ken did not move them.

Quote:
i don't think i am gay but have "gay" thoughts and feelings and fit, no matter how hard i try, into the "gay" stereotype.
If you start a new topic in here about this, try to give more details as the word gay covers way to much. The details of the stereotype would be nice.

As a example, my personality is more feminine than masculine, but my sex drive is basically interested in females. But there was one gay guy that I was attracted to, but he seemed to have a very feminine personality, and wore female slacks, blouse, and shoes. It took about six months of him being around me, for me to become attracted to him. I did have a affair with him, but there were things wrong about it. After that, I went looking in the library, to read some books on being gay, and what not. While gay did not seem to fit me, a book that talked about loveshy men very much did seem to fit me, and that is what I currently believe I am. I have a topic on it in here somewhere.

Take care,
Clifford

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#131495 - 08/17/06 01:50 PM Re: Open for business
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Grayson:
Clifford is on target with his reply. Feel free to post anything here that involves sexuality and identity. If it's not questioning orientation, it might be more appropriate for the gay survivors section if it is about homosexuality per se. I suppose we'll have crossover in both areas.

Only thing, if it gets graphic or may trigger people, put a warning on it. I occasionally delete graphic sexual content if it is bordering (or really into) pornography. This is a public forum.

Ken


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#131496 - 08/27/06 10:13 PM Re: Open for business
DeafDavid Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 38
Loc: NM
Hey my name is David and I just found this area of the site. I am 16 years old and have recently written lots in the Gay Post area. I have always assumed I was gay because my dad always told me I was. I never really thought otherwise but am starting to wonder about this and lots of things. I am confused about all this. I have never actually had a sexual relationship other than the numerous times I was 'made' to do it. I am still in the middle of lots of other things right now, like where I will live etc. so guess its to early to think of all this. Just wondering how one really knows their sexual identity. Seems to me most people fall somewhere inbetween the defined roles? Well thanks for letting me babble

David


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#131497 - 08/27/06 10:43 PM Re: Open for business
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
David,

Sexual identity isn't a matter of gay v. straight. Damagogues and propagandists would like it to be so simple, but let that be their problem.

The way I like to put it is this:

1. Are you being totally honest with yourself about your sexuality and sexual feelings?

2. Are you honest and responsible in your relations with your sexual partner(s)?

3. Do you feel sexually fulfilled?

If the answer to all three questions is yes, then you should be okay, whatever your sexual orientation and activities are.

The rest of your question is more complicated. An abused boy often thinks he's gay because of abuse. That is, he may think that male/male sex makes him gay. This is apparently what your father thinks.

But that just isn't so. Homosexuality is about a lot more than sex, just as heterosexuality is. It's about who you want as your soulmate, who you love, who you want to share your life with, and so on. And in any case, note the word "share". Abuse isn't about sharing anything, it's about a cruel crime that betrays children and uses them for the amusement of predators.

A boy may also think he's gay because when he was being abused he got erections, felt pleasure, and if he was mature enough, ejaculated and achieved orgasms. But our body is sexual in the first place, David, and a boy will often react physically to abuse even when he fears or dislikes what is being done to him.

You should know that many boys are unsure of their sexual identity at your age, regardless of whether or not they have been abused. It's just that the social pressures of our society keep them from talking about it.

For abused boys the confusion is greater, and that's because the abuse has occurred right at the time when you would usually be laying down the foundations for your adult ideas on who you are sexually and what you think is right and wrong. Abuse wrecks these foundations by removing sex from the domain of normal healthy life and turning it into something linked with fear, danger and shame.

In all honesty David, I doubt that you could really know your sexual identity right now. This is something you will begin to sense yourself from activities like dating, close emotional contacts with people, and taking note of who you find physically attractive. You need to give yourself time and accept that however it turns out it will be okay so long as you are happy and responsible in your sexual relations with other people.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#131498 - 08/30/06 05:44 PM Re: Open for business
DeafDavid Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 38
Loc: NM
Thanks Larry,

I appreciate your very thoughtful message. I re-read it a few times. On my other Gay Forum post, I got lots of PM's saying I was probably not gay so now am wondering. I still think I am cuz when ever I dream of being in a relationship, it is with an an older man. This might be that because all the 'sex' I ever had was with older men so who knows. See it is confusing. I know I can't solve everything right now but sure wish I could. I will take it easy and it will all fall in place someday I'm sure. Thanks again Larry, you gave me alot to think about. I appreciate you taking time for me. hey, I couldn't PM you cuz your box is full, FYI


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#131499 - 10/24/06 03:47 AM Re: Open for business
Lars Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 9
Loc: Wisconsin
Can anybody tell me how to effectively deal with these mixed up emotions? I love my wife to death, but when I get in the "hole" and become more depressed, my mind wonders to these male attractions. Is this normal? How have others dealt with this?


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#131500 - 12/12/06 07:57 PM Re: Open for business
Blakanezebruh Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1
Loc: Miami, FL
hello all i am a newbie. i've flirted with finding more info. via the web in regards to my abuse and sexuality for years. i am now ready to be a part of a forum where this sensitive area of my life can be discussed more openly and honestly.
due to my abuse i have been engaging in sexual practices since i was four. the first menage a trois i experienced i was seven with two girls. i also experienced numerous sexual encounters with males througout childhood.
eventually the encounters with girls stopped altogether as my abuse continued. i began to struggle with the feelings i still possess and not being "man" enough for women. i have been promiscuous in pursuits of some sort of magical connection where it all makes sense and where i will feel loved. i have experimented with all facets of male sex. there is initial pleasure but before the encounter is done i often feel disgusted,ashamed and completely uninterested. my abusers often told me how gay or girly i was so i believed them. i didnt identify with being a female and i didnt identify with other males. even as i attempt friendships with gay men i feel a seperation. am i meant to be a priest or hermit? i ask myself.
i am also obsessed with pornographic imagery that remind me of the abuse.
im now at a point where i am tired of these ridiculous pursuits and this compulsiveness with pornography and masturbation. i have never completely identified with homosexuality, as i am attracted to both sexes. i am completely open to having a relationship with a female BUT my insecurity in this area is much larger than my desire for a relationship.
id like to heal my emotional and psychological wounds once and for all...i've been through therapy which has given me more understanding but i havent been able to overcome these struggles as of yet.
thank you for setting up this site. i've come to help and be helped. if nothing else to share and listen to the concerns of others.

_________________________
collectively our voices heal

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#131501 - 12/12/06 09:48 PM Re: Open for business
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
B:
This thread is kind of a dead end from an introduction of this forum. I'm moving it to a new topic in Sexual Identity Issues so you may get more feedback.
Ken


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#144742 - 03/09/07 11:30 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Tattooman Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 2
Loc: PA, USA
Mr Singer,
I stumbled onto this site when I was looking for some more help with my DID. I have had alters that have integreted and when the one homosexual one integrated it caused my whole personality to be turned upside down. I have been married for 24 years and yet I now have these fantasies about men all stemming from my abuse issues. It seems life was so much easier when I had them forgotten. One of my old therapists said that Your mind will give you your memory back when you are ready to remember. I wish I could forget again. We often have done terrible things to myself, fortunately not requiring major medical attention. I appreciated the excerpt from your writing. It is something that I have been dealing with for a long time since the molestations.. Thank You for this Thread
Tattooman

_________________________
There were ten of us now there are 7

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#187250 - 10/15/07 09:50 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Tattooman]
bmac Offline
New Here

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Atlantic Canada
Well I"m very glad to found this website as for me it helps to know that I"M not alone, as this is how most of my life seemed, I really struggled with my identy for a long time, after being abused by my uncle at 10, then raped by a friend at 12 who i trusted with this information and then sexually assulted again at 16 by an complete stranger, I really felt like I had a sign above my head, for me, women's lingerie is my turn on or crossdressing as some say, and I always struggled with why and who i am, i seem to have regular relationships and know that I only want to be with women, and now have found my soul mate who has accepted this part of my turn on's......but still it somehow always plays on my head, why crossdressing is such a turn on for me, wondering if anyone has similar thoughts, or how they deal with the issues.......or thoughts on just accepting who you are, as I always wonder if this is who i am, or am i thinking this way from my abuse and rape.........


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#189406 - 10/31/07 03:19 PM Re: Open for business [Re: bmac]
bmac Offline
New Here

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Atlantic Canada
any body else have similar thoughts or hardships..


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#189441 - 10/31/07 10:02 PM Re: Open for business [Re: bmac]
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
bmac - would you mind starting a new thread with this? I think your post gets lost in this thread - i KNOW you will get more response and support if you just start a new one.
Welcome to MS. This is a great place. The guys will respond if they see your post - I promise. And you will find you are not at all alone.
Paul


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#191725 - 11/17/07 04:32 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Paul1959]
bmac Offline
New Here

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Atlantic Canada
thanks, paul, i have, appreciate the heads up...


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#197497 - 01/01/08 02:26 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
bwh Offline
New Here

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 4
Hi Ken,

my name is Brandon, and I am dealing with some things for the first time in about 37 years or so. I was trying to find a long-term facility for sexual/physical abuse can you help me. I am on Medicare if that matters. Please Help.

Thank You,

Brandon


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#204018 - 02/07/08 04:51 PM Re: confused and searching for answers [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
dave999 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Canada
I have been married for over 30 years and have only recently got in touch with the fact that I was sexually abused by my mother. I now realize that I have spent my whole life repressing this reality. I am only now beginning to understand what I did in response to it and the enormity of what this did to me and the huge impact that this has had on my life. I, like many others, put in place as a child a series of defenses to help me deal with the abuse. The problem was that these defensive behaviours served to isolate me from the reality at the time and as such continue today - resulting in - isolation, lack of trust, lack of intimacy etc. I have just started therapy. A major force for getting me into therapy stemmed from my confusion regarding my sexuality. Prior to acknowledging my sexcual abuse - I found myself developing very strong sexual urges to be with a male - questions raced through my head - am I gay? Bi? Hetero? - in spite of living a hetero life - I was thoroughly confused and still am to some degree as to my sexual orientation. I began acting out my sexual urges to see if I was gay and have been with males and have had sex with them on a number of occasions. From these experiences I have come to realize that a very large part of my confsuion related to my craving for intimacy - I did not seem to be attracted to men on the street and was not checking them out but yet I did have a very strong attraction to the male penis (the centre of my mothers attention)- I enjoyed the physical contact with these men - certainly found it easier (much more relaxed) to be with them than females. Today - at some level - it is slowing beginning to make some sense to me - being fearful of my mother (and women in general)would certainly make it easier for me to be with a male. Because of my isolation and non-trust - building intimate relationshsips was always a problem - so I have lived my life in somewhat of a suspended state - half way between women and men - I guess this is the safe place to be (so my child within would say) but very lonely. I now realize that with the abuse - I took on a submissive role - did not show anger - if I did my mother would cry and my father would chastise me for making her cry. I learned to do what I was told - to repress my anger - with the result that the female side of my being flourished whereas the the male side was supressed and negated in the environment in which I was raised. I am now thinking that much of my confusion regarding my sexuality is a result of this paradigm - I was separated from my maleness at a young age - in a non-trusting environment. To be safe - I had to not be a male. As an adult - not being sure of my sexual identity has resulted -in me not trusting and being in an approach/avoidance type of conflict - wanting the close friendship with a male on the one hand but fearing it on the the other (homophobia)- how could I risk it - I might find out that I am gay - I don't want to be gay - but what if I am - this was the internal dialogue that went on. I had to go there to find out - this led to me seeking out males. I haven't been with a male now for about 6 months - the urges are less - but in some way I think that this urge has more to me wanting to re-connect with the male side of my being than it has to do with whether or not I am gay, bi or hetero - as I regain this side of my being - the gay issue seems to becoming less of an issue - am I bi? I don't know yet - but I will stick with the journey and let this answer itself once I feel fully connected to the male side of my being - I hope that this sturggle of mine may help to shed some light on the struggles that other survivors may be having related to their sexual identity. It sure is confusing but hopefully it will sort itself out with time - take care and have a good one - D



Edited by dave999 (02/08/08 12:07 AM)

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#204069 - 02/07/08 11:07 PM Re: Open for business [Re: dave999]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Dave, I want to reply to your post, but I need to think about it for a day. A lot of what you said fits me as well, but I may have a bit of a different perspective. Anyway, I'll write more soon.

In the meantime, I wanted to make the same suggestion to you that Paul made to BMAC; Cut and paste your post into a new thread in this forum, with a title worthy of the subject. You'll get a lot more resonses if it's not buried on page 4 of this thread. Just my suggestion.

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#204142 - 02/08/08 11:41 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Lazarus]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Dave my experience is very different from yours but the end result sounds like it was the same. I longed for a male identity whatever that meant. I had no real male role model and I grew up desperately wanting to be male but thought that sex was the way to get close to males. I was attracted to straight looking/acting guys and wanted to be like them and it all got messed up once we became friends. It took a long time for me to figure it out but for me what I came to is that I am attracted to men but it is the male type that I want. I am not really interested in the sex. It is being close and being accepted as another man that I really want. I was prostituting my body for this vague idea of acceptance and approval. The affirmation that I too am a man and will be accepted as such. This of course is what I should have gotten from my dad but never did. It all got mixed up with sex and screwed the hell out of my sexual identity. I am much happier married to my wife now. Much happier being a father. and Much happier with Good male friends. Sadly it took 55 years to get here.




Edited by Freedom49 (02/08/08 11:44 AM)

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#204161 - 02/08/08 01:25 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Freedom49]
dave999 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Canada
Thanks for your feedback Freedom. I too did not have a strong male identity in the family - father had a stroke at age 40 and was left paralyzed on one side of his body. My mother had to look after him, she belittled him and I think that with my submissive behavior I became a surrogate husband at some level for her. It is interesting whenever I feel an urge to be with a male - it is very strong - I think that this is my libidinal energy raging to be accepted - and as you say it has nothing to do with the sex - but because it is male libidinal energy that is driving it - you get all confused - at least this is what I am thinking at the moment. When we do have these moments I think that it is important to ask ourselves what is it that we want to gain? We can go there - be confused, guilty, ashamed, depressed etc. - virtually an empty negative experience - but the deeper questions need to be answered - not am I gay or Bi but rather what are you looking to find or gain from the experience - there is always a perceived gain behind our actions - what is the perceived gain here? Being honest with oneself is difficult amidst all of the the confusion - but I find if I allow it in that I am seeking to connect with the male side of my being - the urgency and intensity seem to soften and abate - to me this is saying that the deeper me is looking to connect with the other half of my being - interesting but confusing - cheers D


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#210161 - 03/11/08 06:49 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
JT's the Man Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 41
Good idea!


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#210203 - 03/12/08 12:25 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Ken,
That last paragraph really spoke to me. I have realized over the years that my acting out with males in my opinion, was indeed a way of returning to the trauma. Hoping to control it and understand it. Hoping to find in it what ever it was that I was hoping for which I think was to connect with my father on some level that I was denied in other means. I am no longer acting out with other males in my life and have a few good friends now but still no one close and I wonder if I will ever have a close male friend that will meet that need now that it is no longer sexual in its manifestation.


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#232889 - 06/23/08 10:42 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
jcf1957 Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 192
Loc: North Of The 49th Parallel
Ken;

I think you have garnered a lot of respect and trust among a vast number of men here at M.S. I certainly would like you to know you have mine. You might find this strange but; it's taken me a great many years to finally step out of my safety zone. And perhaps for the first time in my life I can confidently admit that I could honestly sit down and converse with you face to face for hours about my past. This admission does not come easy for me. Not in the least. I've struggled for three long arduous decades trying to find my identity. Gang-rape in the most brutal of circumstances has played immense havoc on this search for my identity most of my life.

Some people may oddly question how the hell does a six foot three, 250lb stature of a man who was been heterosexual in the strictest sense become Androphobic and adopt an Asexual personality into his psyche ?
Not something I could easily explain in a simple paragraph.
I appreciate you opening this thread and wish you success in your new book.





Edited by jcf1957 (06/24/08 07:21 AM)
_________________________
No affliction nor temptation, no guilt nor power of sin, no wounded spirit nor terrified conscious should induce us to despair comfort from God.

Today well lived...makes every tomorrow a vision of Hope.
Anonymous

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#233314 - 06/24/08 10:32 PM Re: Open for business [Re: jcf1957]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Re; the book, I heard a couple days ago that the potential publisher I would most like to have involvement with is looking at it today. I will let everyone know when it is accepted. Thanks for the compliments and I hope things work out with you. If you ever move down here, I'd love to work with you.


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#233321 - 06/24/08 10:42 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Thomas J Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 83
Loc: Oklahoma
good luck mr. singer. tj


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#233421 - 06/25/08 08:35 AM Re: confused and searching for answers [Re: dave999]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
i don't know guys, for myself, the tendency to label ourselves as sexually one way or the other seems to be attempt to adjust ourselves to our duly assigned social roles. sexuality is mercurial, not an either/or issue. we may well lie closer to one end of the spectrum or another, but my experience of sexuality is that it rails along a continuum between the two polarities.

again, here is an occasion to note how we attempt in this society to adjust ourselves according to the prevailing notion of who and how we 'should' be.

we keep trying to put ourselves into these boxes and end up driving ourselves crazy in the process.

that's what i gather for the time being.....

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#233986 - 06/27/08 12:35 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
i was abused between the ages of 6 and 17yrs old, and after i had the courage to face my fears, i checked out "COURAGE TO HEAL",(for women),from the local library. i looked back in the other resources section and found a book called,VICTIMS NO LONGER,(for men). i ordered it,and it was delivered by u.s. mail, i didn't know what i was doing at that point, rushed home, tore the package open, and began a quest. i couldn't figure out what this question was,but i felt compelled to answer it...

and finally darkness turned into light after pouring through the pages,and taking notes along the way.

on the last page of this journal, i covered the page I AM NOT GAY,I FOUND THE ANSWER. and i, UNDERLINED IT THREE TIME'S.

for me this was a riddle i had to figure out before my healing could begin.

please be at peace with what you find. there is no shame. you are what you are.
i believe, there is no greater gift than knowing oneself.

1islandboy (GREAT IDEA, YOU GUY'S ROCK)

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#241920 - 08/02/08 09:17 AM Re: Open for business [Re: 1islandboy]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2439
Loc: TEXAS
Hi Brothers,
Well I had some thoughts about this while I was being abused, I remember "wrestling" with another boy while I was in a Catholic orphanage/home, we also played strip poker, we also took great interest in each others peinises. there were 55-60 boys there.
I remember me and my cousin (mutually) masturbating together and each other as kids, and maybe into other areas. It gave me some concern as to just which way I was heading, luckily this might just have been "kids stuff" "Boys stuff".

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#283263 - 04/11/09 02:20 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
starman77 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Illinois
Identy issue can be a bear to deel with. I an not sure where I am.


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#283267 - 04/11/09 02:30 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
starman77 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Illinois
Mr. Singer,

That is a great idea. Sometimes I feel like I have lost it.


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#283564 - 04/13/09 09:58 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
starman77 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Illinois
Thanks Ken,

This has been the toughest issue in my recovery. Been trying to let it go but I find that hard to do. I hate the attraction...it just doesn't see to away.


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#290411 - 06/05/09 03:05 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
h.beat,h.break Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York
There's an ambivalence when it comes to an abused man's sexuality. It's like everything we know about love, sex, intimacy and abuse get all tangled up.

I don't consider myself gay, straight or bi, but something is not hooking up right. The weird thing about this is that I hate being around other men because I don't meet the physical standards of what it means to be a man. But, I can have sex with one at the drop of a dime, even though I'm on automatic pilot during the encounter.

I hat this confusion with such a passion, I could burn a hole through through the Earth right now.

_________________________
Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

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#294031 - 07/03/09 04:59 AM Re: Open for business [Re: h.beat,h.break]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
I'm not gay, I'm not bi, and I'm not a tranny. Not going to go in any of those directions ever. I "went gay" briefly when I was a teenager, and I found it repulsive. If anyone else likes it, hey- whatever floats your boat. I don't care. But I also found back when I was living in Laramie (was planning on going to U/WY) that if a woman hits up on you and gets physical with you, you can slap her down. But if a gay hits up on you, you literally have no defense. Something about the Matthew Shepard kid. So, I quit going out to town at night.


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#309098 - 11/02/09 10:52 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
krayoss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 112
Loc: west
Thank you for providing yet another venue for discussion and healing.


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#332085 - 05/25/10 09:08 PM Re: Open for business [Re: krayoss]
KingFred Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 57
Loc: West Coast, USA
I belong here. Not sure if I'm straight (been attracted to females since I started puberty) or bi (have a gay, very effeminate male friend that I've had a crush on since the 9th grade, and these feelings towards very effeminate males has been growing for a couple years). Or am I just lonely and seeking love?

_________________________
Not particularly a fan of hugs. High fives and well wishes are always appreciated though.

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#332094 - 05/25/10 10:23 PM Re: Open for business [Re: KingFred]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
hi kingfred,

we all need love so there's no shame in that. i identify as 90% gay [if that's possible] and have been in 2 hetero relationships [where there was not really any sexual attraction -- only emotional ]. i have an attitude now, being a serial monogamist, that if i were to be in another relationship, i would have a 'love the one you're with' attitude, no matter whether the person was male or female. i don't rule anything out now, and i believe recovery has brought me to that point, which for me feels like healthy integration. but everyone has to find their own path. trying to label myself was not the right way for me. it may be for somebody else though. we're all different and my understanding is that sexuality isn't truly black and white.

warm regards, and welcome,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#334337 - 06/21/10 02:41 PM Re: Open for business [Re: hikers1116]
violapoet730 Offline


Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Oklahoma
I am also new to this site, although in searching the internet for an 'outlet', if I may call it so, I came across this site browsed it and kept going at that time.

My google search brought me to this forum about sexual identity issues from my search for 'positive male behavioral reinforcement' and 'neediness in males'. I feel a lot of the same way you do... that lines that should have been distinct within their roles are now 'blurred'. The need of having a father was already an underlying issue for me before I had been seduced into sexual abuse. I needed the 'male' part of me that was weak to be strengthened/reinforced and it seemed that the embrace (even apart from it have a link sexually), the comfort, and the acceptance that all too many fathers even the 'male society' are too scared to give and display, it seemed that this is what I was receiving. However, I had to honestly take a step back to see if there was any selfishness involved in these acts; did the males from whom I was receiving these things have similar qualities as my abuser?

I have realized that I will be constantly attempting to cope in this aspect of my being; maybe not so much ridding myself of these insecurities, the hurt, the overall mental confusion at times but one thing that I take away from it which I see as a strength for me is that by attempting to cope, I am determined to not be hindered to love others unselfishly, in the way that is beneficial and promotes ones personality to flourish.


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#346010 - 11/22/10 03:01 PM Re: Open for business [Re: bwh]
Matt0487 Offline


Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Houston, TX, USA
If you never found a place, you can go to somewhere called The Meadows. It is excellent.


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#357340 - 03/22/11 12:21 PM Re: confused and searching for answers [Re: dave999]
tristanfree Offline


Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 3
Dave---You just described my life. Wow. Very similar experience. The only difference is I opted to avoid marriage, as it never felt safe for me to be intimate with any woman. Just last year I recovered my repressed memories of sexual abuse by my mother, a few months after her death (which I now understand was the triggering event for my memories to return). I have long struggled with sexual identity issues--feeling drawn to men at times but knowing deep down that I am not gay. Now, at last, it's all beginning to make sense.

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone in your experience, or in having to deal with the effects.

Tristan

p.s.--I'm now in therapy, and doing EMDR (to help get past my PTSD issues related to feminine affection), and practicing engaging with men in various situations as "one of them" rather than seeing myself as an alien in their midst. I have a long way to go yet, but I can tell it's working.


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#360043 - 04/17/11 10:53 PM Re: Open for business [Re: FEELNLOWBRO]
Sterling Offline


Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 279
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada
I HATE GOING IN THE SHOWER! I JUST DO! MY CATALYST , IN
MOVING TO THE CITY IN WHICH I LIVE SAID TO ME IN REGARDING
ABOUT SHOWERING WITH OTHER MEN " BUT THE CONFIDENCE".
YEAH, WHAT CONFIDENCE? IT HAS BEEN OVER 12 YEARS AND I FEEL
SO SHAMEFUL. EVERY GUY HAS A NORMAL YOU KNOW WHAT, AND I WELL
DON'T! I ALWAYS FELT SO INADEQUATE. WORRIED IF PEOPLE WOULD
LAUGH AT ME. SORRY, I AM GOIN ALL OUT HERE.
ANYWAY, THANKS FOR ALLOWING ME TO FEEL MY FEELINGS!
STERLING


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#360044 - 04/17/11 11:03 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Sterling]
Sterling Offline


Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 279
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada
ALL MY LIFE I WANTED TO BE A BOY! I AM 36 NOW , AND
HAVE NEVER FELT UP A GIRL! I ALWAYS WAS SCARED OF
A WOMAN. I WAS ALWAYS OBSSESED WITH MEN AND CONFUSED
" WHO AM I, AM I QUEER"?
I WAS TERRIFED IN HIGH SCHOOL. I HATED THE BOYS
CHANGE ROOM. I WAS ADDICTED TO THINKING SICK
STUFF. I NEVER FELT I COULD TALK TO ANYONE.
WHERE WAS MY DAD? WHAT A MORON, HE WAS!
I HAVE A FRIEND NOW. UNFORTANETLY HE HAS SOME
CHALLENGES WHEN IT COMES TO INTIMACY WITH FEMALES
AS WELL! WHY DO WE HAVE TO ENDURE THIS CRAP?
I DON'T LIKE ME . I WISH I NEVER KNEW MY DAD'S
FAMILY. I ONLY SCRIBE . I AM TAKING ADULT ENGLISH
AT THE MOMENT, I DUNNO MAYBE HOPING I CAN WRITE
SOMETHING SOME-DAY. I LOVE PEOPLE! ESPECIALLY
WHEN THEY ARE GOOD WITH KIDS AND GENUINE. MY
MOM BEAT ME. MY SIBLING AND MY DAD'S NEICES
TAUNTED ME, WHILE GROWING UP. I DIDN'T KNOW
WHO TO TRUST,WHERE TO GO? THE SHOWER? I HAVE
HAD SOME UNCOMFORTABLE LOOKS. SOMETIMES I
WISH I WOULD HAVE KILLED MY DAD. HE IS OKAY!
HE IS DOWNSTAIRS WATHCING NEWS; LIKE HE DID
ALL MY LIFE! I WAS SCARED OF HIM AND HIS
BROTHER ALL MY LIFE DEVELOPING SCHIZOAFFECTIVE
DISORDER. THEY ARE ALL FREAKS! THAT IS WHY
I CALL WHO MY FAMILY, A COUPLE OF PEOPLE
HERE IN THIS PLACE WHERE I LIVE AND MY THERAPIST
WHO DOESN'T LIVE HERE. ( WE CONDUCT THERAPY OVER
THE PHONE). WELL, OFF MY CHEST.
THANKYOU!
STERLING


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#360176 - 04/19/11 09:41 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Sterling]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Welcome Sterling!

I am sorry you had a messed-up childhood.

Now that you are older, you can do better for yourself. I see that in what you shared, that you have a strong desire to improve.

This is the place that can start to happen. we all have problems that come from being abused. We are learning to work through those problems and make life better day by day.

Jamie

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#360214 - 04/19/11 02:57 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Liam Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 41
Loc: Currently South Africa
As a boy growing up - being sexually molested by a man - twelfe years older than i were at the time - i developed some deep emotional bonds with my abuser. The abuse stretched over about 8 years and much happened in that time. Some i remember to place and smell and age and some i still cannot recall. I have been told by my therapist that i struggle with sexual trauma and this is still rooted in my childhood sexual abuse as well. At times i am glad i dont remember it all but it seems to affect me still. I am also sexually confused. Since i developed some intense emotions and feelings for my molester i grew up imagining us settling down. I dreamed that we would buy a house - settle in and live happily ever after. At the age of eight i told him how much i loved him and made him cards etc. He played his role so well. At times to well. He were'nt all abusive and he did not physically abuse me until he raped me at age 11. Before that i lived in a very confused idillic state and after the rape all hell broke loose. Mostly from inside me and the moment i were close to thirteen he moved on to someone else. In fact years later i found out that he moved on from his own brother - who were adopted and four years older than i were to me. So long story short. I still dream that he rapes me. Not all the time but it still happens. I still suffer from nightmares as well. In my dreams he is like a boogyman and nothing is left of the tender man i once knew as a kid. The other thing that bothers me is that i still dream that i have sexu with men. At times in my dreams i want and desire it and at other times i am being raped and it feels like hell. In the latter i have hardly any control and i cant wait to wake up for i bite my cheeks and grind down my teeth. Yes i am sleeping with a mouthguard now but much damage has been done. So in my dreams i am above average a gay man - or so i understand. I am sexually confused as well lean much towards gay but then again i have very few dreams since i were a boy where i would make love to a women. I do have those and yes i do enjoy them as well but they are much fewer than the gay ones and by far outnumbered. My whole life since i can remember i have sex or sexual contact with men in my dreams and only in my teens did the idea of women enter the scene. This off course still causes me much guilt for i have been engaged before to a women and i would still dream at night that i were with a man or being raped by a man. So i did a bunch of stupid things in the past and even hurt myself much but with therapy i really am stepping forward in many areas of my life. I also dont blame myself for my dreams or my penis attractions anymore but do want to know if i will have this confusion till the day i die. Will i still suffer these dreams? Is this even something one can move away from? Would love to know.


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#360223 - 04/19/11 05:17 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Liam]
wayne9 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
Liam, I am sorry for what you have been and are going through. We all here at MS have very different stories but are all connected to CSA. Something you said that you are having problems with.....biting your cheeks and grinding your teeth. For years I have had a problem with my lower lip. It seemed to never get well. Always looked like I had a fever blister either starting or maybe just now getting better. I was always self-concuss about it, thought people was always looking at it wondering what it was. Just lately I started waking up bleeding from my lip most every morning. Come to find out the problem is me biting my lip in my sleep. Its been happening for years. Just gotten worse lately. After reading what you said it makes me wonder is it possible I am having bad dreams and don't recall them. Anyone ever heard if this is possible?

Tim


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#360405 - 04/21/11 07:04 PM Re: Open for business [Re: wayne9]
Liam Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 41
Loc: Currently South Africa
I think it is possible. For years growing up i did it and i did not always have nightmares to accompany them. Or maybe like you said - we cant recall them.


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#363954 - 06/10/11 01:11 PM Re: Open for business [Re: bmac]
lee55 Offline


Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 13
Loc: midwest
constantly fight these thoughts and desires. wish i knew why. wonder if i was somewhat feminized when abused by older cousin.
was made to feel appreciated by what he had me do at age 7. these thoughts cause much guilt in marriage. Have never acted on this but do enjoy chatting with others on line



Edited by lee55 (08/06/11 04:07 PM)

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#371485 - 10/02/11 02:51 AM Re: Open for business [Re: lee55]
mpm01 Offline


Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 85
Loc: Australia
I have removed this post as being possibly not apropriate (sorry)


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#371500 - 10/02/11 10:37 AM Re: Open for business [Re: mpm01]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
removed by author



Edited by Ken Singer, LCSW (10/03/11 08:42 AM)

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#378664 - 12/08/11 07:42 AM Re: confused and searching for answers [Re: dave999]
Dexter Offline


Registered: 05/29/11
Posts: 43
Loc: NJ, USA
My God. You have put into words what I have felt for my whole life but could not explain. My mother was my main perp, and my father lived in the same house but was invisible. I had to be all and do whatever to make her happy . My actions in the aftermath areidenticle as well as the confusion. Wanting the male closeness and willing to do whatever to gain it. Then feeling guilty as hell afterwards. So glad to know that I am not the only one that felt/feels this confusion and lack of identity. I'm still not sure who or what I am and sometimes feel I may never really know for sure. Almost 40 years into a marriage that I feel good in, but still have this craving that I struggle with all the time. Thanks for helping me understand myself.


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#385148 - 02/10/12 08:43 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Dexter Offline


Registered: 05/29/11
Posts: 43
Loc: NJ, USA
Ok, here goes. I have been approached for sexual activity since I was a kid. from same age friends, ill show you mine you show me yours. Which I think was innocent- age 5-6. to grade school where an older cousin introduced me to masterbation and oral sex I was 8 he was 15-16. This relationship is my issue rite now. Raped at knifepoint at 21 and was married- never told. Married at 20 but acted out with guys from 10 until about 3 weeks ago at 58. Oh, and molested by my mother from 5-13. so women never seemed safe. men, safeR, and the only male attention i ever received. At 59 still confused. Love my wife, 3 amazing kids. bye now sure who i am. is it a real male attraction, compulsion for the 15 minutes of control/contact. Don't want to leave my wife to live a gay life. but occasionally need to have the familiarity of being with a guy. Having REAL trouble around the cousin relationship We still speak but there has been no physical stuff in 30+ years. Don't know who or what the fuck i am and can't find a shrink in my area until May. no new patients. WTF?


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#389719 - 03/18/12 06:32 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Dead Man Talking]
7373dssnn Offline


Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 10
hey michael
u r not alone with those fantasies


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#389739 - 03/18/12 10:42 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Dexter]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Dexter
Ok, here goes. I have been approached for sexual activity since I was a kid. from same age friends, ill show you mine you show me yours. Which I think was innocent- age 5-6. to grade school where an older cousin introduced me to masterbation and oral sex I was 8 he was 15-16. This relationship is my issue rite now. Raped at knifepoint at 21 and was married- never told. Married at 20 but acted out with guys from 10 until about 3 weeks ago at 58. Oh, and molested by my mother from 5-13. so women never seemed safe. men, safeR, and the only male attention i ever received. At 59 still confused. Love my wife, 3 amazing kids. bye now sure who i am. is it a real male attraction, compulsion for the 15 minutes of control/contact. Don't want to leave my wife to live a gay life. but occasionally need to have the familiarity of being with a guy. Having REAL trouble around the cousin relationship We still speak but there has been no physical stuff in 30+ years. Don't know who or what the fuck i am and can't find a shrink in my area until May. no new patients. WTF?


I thought for a moment that I was reading something, I wrote. Fascinating how that happens. I can really relate to what your saying. I too was abused by my mother. I was abused by my male cousin. Hmmmm...at nearly the same ages as you were.

One of the big differences is: I left my wife 20 years ago to live out my same sex attractions (SSA). I will get into trouble for saying this but, it is my story. I thought the SSA meant I was gay.

I am learning to express my feelings AND I am speaking up about my need for male contact (non-sexual). I have been in intensive therapy for the abuse issues.

Anyway, just saying that I can relate.

Peace,
Avery

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#427316 - 03/06/13 05:27 PM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Kryptic Offline


Registered: 12/20/10
Posts: 24
Loc: USA
"I feel most comfortable with a woman, I still have strong homosexual fantasies. At times I am
accepting of how this is how my life played itself out, but there are other times when I'm emotionally unbalanced and things seem to feel out of control."

...that's exactly how I feel Roderick; you're not alone.
_________________________
"Because if you don't define yourself for yourself, you'll be crushed into other people's image of you, and eaten alive." (Audre Lorde)

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#432814 - 04/29/13 03:49 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Antonio78 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/21/13
Posts: 6
Hi Ken,

I'm struggling with my sexual identity, and I decided to read all the post on this topic. I've been married for 9 years, and have 3 wonderful kids. For tha lst year, I can't have any sex with my wife. I don't feel aroused, and I'm having troubl getting turned on. I did have sex with a man, and I don't feel ashame anymore, but I did feel comfortable wih him(this didn't happened before with other experineces I've had with men). These last days, I've been thinking on leaving my wife. Because I felt comfortable(emotionaly attached) with this guy, does it mean I'm gay, or confused? Do you think I can still work my issues to be with my wife? I don'tknow what to do, and I don't want to regret my final decision.

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#458414 - 01/10/14 12:13 PM Re: Open for business [Re: roadrunner]
crockybr Offline


Registered: 01/10/14
Posts: 6
Loc: São Paulo
Thank you Larry, your words are most helpful!
I´ve spent 40 years in dark silence. I´m now 46. I´ve been able to breath again just knowing that I am not alone.
I am happylly married, but have always had sexual attraction to older men, father and grandfather figures. This has led to greater pain and shame. Human sexuality is very complex and our sexuality cannot be defined by one or a few experiences and fantasies.

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#460481 - 02/11/14 10:18 AM Re: Open for business [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
I wondered why is was hyper sexual as a kid. Memories of things came back and it is obvious now.

I had to explore strange thoughts that I wondered how they got in my head. Like I know about this and want it... But I have never done it.... Or have I? Then memories stared coming back.

Perspective. I am happy now with me. Warts and all. I just try and let my wife be every fantasy I have. She is happy and willing.

I think we underestimate how much we are loved, since we often struggle to love ourselves.

Peace
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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