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#131452 - 08/13/04 12:46 PM Bisexual Category
JamesMichael Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 134
We have a Male Survivor category and a Gay Survivor category, among others. I'd like to see a forum specifically for survivors who identify as bisexual. I know the list of labels can be endless, but many of us are married men who struggle with sexual issues that go beyond acting out behaviors and that get into the whole notion of how to "be married" and get needs for legitimate male intimacy met in appropriate ways. Our fragmented sexualities are all over the place, and they need to be made whole. We need support to move from one fragment to the other. McGreevey's resignation brings home the experience of many men who may not identify as gay (as McGreevey does) but as bi, and who choose to remain with their wives because they love them and their children and who don't want to chuck the whole lot because they like guys too.


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#131453 - 08/13/04 01:01 PM Re: Bisexual Category
David1010 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 46
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
You make a great point. The same goes for some of us in gay relationships that sometimes mess around with women.


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#131454 - 08/13/04 02:05 PM Re: Bisexual Category
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
My brothers I think the important thing is that we are all, each and everyone of us, survivors. and we come from the whole spectrum of preferences. I honestly do not know what I am. I love my wife and I am faithful to her now. For years I acted out with men. When I was a street hustler it was with men. I know that when I wife came into my life I reached out and she was there. To be honest I do not know what would have happened if the person was called Nicholas and not Nicole.

I do understand the dilemma you are in and maybe a forum could be created for bisexual survivors.

Actually I think it is a good idea.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#131455 - 08/13/04 05:12 PM Re: Bisexual Category
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
What of my therapist, who thinks that we are oriented in one direction, and feeling pulled or drawn to the other or same sex, is related to the confusion from abuse. He says that working through the abuse leads us more firmly in the direction of where we are oriented.
I know that my experience with my family and my eigth grade teacher, left me with a lot of images in my mind and questions about my sexuality.
Great thread. I know that if we have it here or in a special catagory on the site, it should prove to be a stimulating discussion.

Peace out, as my nephew used to say,

The Other David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#131456 - 08/13/04 06:12 PM Re: Bisexual Category
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I remember sometime after the event of my older brother calling me a queer, maybe it was the traits I shown, I remember him calling me a freak, now that really did make me ANGRY

Funny thing though, he was so protective, and I mean that, he still is, one day he came to me and begged to be friends again, and I told him "You are not my brother"

No, I didn't, I screamed that to him, so that he knew where I was coming from, when you look for support, it is no-good being a protective brother, then branding me a freak.

I don't want to be the person left by this shit, but I have to and guess what, "you don't have the capacity to understand that".

My family is broken with feud, and I guess I am the only one who can put the pieces together, but then again, who else?

Guilt springs to mind

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#131457 - 08/14/04 01:29 AM Re: Bisexual Category
fusionoflove Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/03/04
Posts: 112
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I don't know of anyone or have never met anyone who identified themselves as bi. Although, if you play the play out the odds of possiblities there are going to be people on this planet who identify themselves as bisexual.

Unfortunately, I do not know what it's like to be bisexual or homosexual. I will say that any forum that can help survivors with specific issues such as yours is probably a beneficial thing to everyone. I imagine the gay forum helps others to connect on a different level, a bisexual one can help as well.

Ivanhoe mentioned that his therapist believes that people are orientated to one sex or the other and that confusion is the result of sexual abuse. Basically, what the therapist seems to implying is that no one is bisexual. Who knows if that it is true or not? I don't believe it is. I just thank God, I wasn't born with such a unique sexuality. You're a special person born with a gift different than others. I'm glad that you're not ashamed of it and that you can talk about it freely with us here.

I will say that confusion over sexuality has to be one of the biggest issues of survivors whether they are gay, bi, or straight. I for one can fully relate to this confusion. I was raped as an adult, not as a child. I've never had, before the rape, any desire or inclination to the same sex. I think I would be the first one to know. After the rape though everything became muddled. I think it's due to the loss of one's identity. Since the crime was committed in a sexual manner, sexual identity tends to be the biggest problem in adult male rape victims.

Take it easy man,
Fusion

It's hard and I've worked through a lot of issues. Now, it's not thought I don't feel fully hetereosexual, but I dont' feel rounded as a person. I learning more and more about myself everyday. Thank sobriety, friends and counseling for that.


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#131458 - 08/14/04 02:32 AM Re: Bisexual Category
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Indeed there is a significant gender identity struggle that can result from childhood sexual abuse. I have many friends that identify as gay; I have many friends that identify as or struggle with bisexuality and of course I know many heterosexuals. I am friends with some founders and proponents of Reparative Therapy (i.e. Elizabeth Moberley, Joe Nicolosi and others) and know it works for some. I have helped other guys realize they are gay and accept their homosexuality. I have struggled at times with bisexual issues myself. Thus, I have some very strong opinions and conclusions in the area of married biseual males.

Yes, a forum to discuss this specific issue would be a great idea. There are lots and lots of men struggling with being married/bisexual. More than any one could imagine. A forum would definitely serve a need.

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#131459 - 08/14/04 02:46 AM Re: Bisexual Category
Malidin41 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Utah
This to me is a great idea. I have been struggling with my sexuality for quite some time and maybe if I could talk with others that have decided what there sexuality is maybe then I could start to figure out what mine is as well. Thanks for sharing this idea I hope they decide to add this to the board.

_________________________
Mother of the kingdom of silence I have obeyed you long enough!!!

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#131460 - 08/14/04 06:14 AM Re: Bisexual Category
Aden Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
Maybe I just don't get it. I thought that we were all Bi by nature. The confusion is strictly social. But it is an issue that we probably could get some good healing from talking about.

There is no good reason for us to be confused or catagorized. It is just something that happens.

In the long run, You is what you is.

Aden


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#131461 - 08/14/04 10:09 PM Re: Bisexual Category
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5773
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
There seems to be a fair amount of discussion on this topic. Do people think that there should be a seperate forum on bisexuality or confused sexual orientation issues aside from the Gay Survivors topic?

Ken


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#131462 - 08/15/04 05:48 AM Re: Bisexual Category
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
I don't know what it is, what it feels, to be bisexual or homosexual. I have had feelings of 'sexual confusion' before, of course, and still have not been in that kind of intimite relationship.

But, and I mean this respectfully here, there are people here who suffer from all different kind of issues due to the abuse. I do not know that we could create a forum for them all. Will next we have a forum for those who cope by using drugs and alcohol? For those who have DID? Or how about forums of other languages, for foreign members here? Or age restricted forums? I do not mean to be facestious, it just seem that we spend enough of our lives 'categorized' or labeled in enough different ways. Here, we are all survivors, above our differences in personality and coping skills.

Just my opinion of it.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#131463 - 08/16/04 10:13 AM Re: Bisexual Category
JamesMichael Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 134
I am happy to see that there is so much interest in this subject. As a survivor of sexual abuse, this forum and organization has been the cornerstone of the healing that continues in my life since I first signed on in the beginning of 2002. I've come to observe in my life and lives of other men, both survivors and not, that the sexual and emotional attraction some of us have to BOTH sexes presents its own conundrum in maneuvering our way through our lives. We ask, where do we want to go with this? So, yes Ken, I know that I would personally like to see a forum to discuss bisexual issues. There are other "hook-up" sites, and at least one yahoo group that addresses bisexual married men issues.

With respect to Leosha's comments about the cornicopia of labels, there are a lot of online and off resources for DID, substance and alcohol abuse, etc., issue.

Malesurvivor.org is in a unique position to offer intelligent support and facilitate dialog in this area from the survivor fram of reference.


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#131464 - 08/16/04 11:16 AM Re: Bisexual Category
Dan88 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
I would think that maybe the way to go is to start a forum specifically for bisexual issues. If it gets a lot of use, it's a great addition that was obviously needed. If it winds up not being used, it can be deleted.


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#131465 - 08/16/04 06:04 PM Re: Bisexual Category
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Then there's A-sexual & non-sexual.... as long as we support each other - that's what matters!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#131466 - 08/17/04 01:13 AM Re: Bisexual Category
cpt. confusion Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 159
Loc: midwest
i can see Lesoshas point about the labels, and I agree, but i also think that bisexuality is a topic that is broad enough to have a specific forum on. i know that personally i would benefit from the ability to relate to others that struggle with issues of sexuality, as i struggle myself. There are many topics that can spring from a bisexual forum, not only from those that know that they are bisexual, but also from those of us who have had experiences acting out with both sexes, and dont understand fully what it means to be homosexual, or heterosexual, or even bisexual! I have trouble understanding sexuality because of my abuse. sometimes i feel that there are no emotional ties to sex at all, and that it is purely a physical act to give and receive pleasure... maybe thats just it, maybe the answer isn't to create a forum called bisexuality, maybe there should be a forum simply titled sexuality, or something like that, where we could talk about issues regarding sexuality and its confusions in general, relating to people of any orientation. either way, i know that i personally would benefit from some type of forum that is directed towards issues specifically regarding sexuality and the problems that we have dealing with it.


cpt.

_________________________
"Look at every path closely and deliberately, then ask ourselves this crucial question: Does this path have a heart? If it does, then the path is good. If it doesn't, it is of no use."
-Carlos Castaneda

*WoR Alum
Sequoia I-March '11
Alta II, September '11

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#131467 - 08/17/04 11:13 AM Re: Bisexual Category
Aden Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
I think that sexual orientation should not constitute a separate category. CSA is the cause of much sexual confusion. We should all work thru that confusion together. Acceptance of our confusion by the individuals in the group who might not have yet confronted their own confusion might be one of the more beneficial aspects of our group therapy. If we divide ourselves into smaller and smaller groups, there is a lot of information that others who might benefit could miss out on.

There is a need to explore the issue of sexual confusion, but I think that this need lies among more of us than would be willing to visit a discussion specifically dedicated to Bi-sexuality.

We are not all one way or the other. In fact, were we to look deeply into our own hearts, very few of us are totally gay or straight. And the confusion caused our the abuse is part of what we have to deal with as survivors. We are all different. That is OK. Let just talk about it as a larger group rather than a bunch of small groups. Religions split off into different sects. But survivors should stick together.

Aden


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#131468 - 08/17/04 01:53 PM Re: Bisexual Category
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
How about something Like Confused Identity. Now that does not really really relate to gay or straight. But boy a lot of us are really confused.

Sexual confusion/identity issues

This is not really my suggestion but it comes from someone I really deeply respect here.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#131469 - 08/18/04 06:58 PM Re: Bisexual Category
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I've been watching this discussion with interest, and more than a bit of indecision.

James made a great point when he started the topic, and many guys agree with him. I do as well. but I also agree with Leosha and others that more 'labels' might not be the best way forward.
And I know that many Gay men here do get pissed off when guys come here and, like I did ( confused ) discuss our doubts and fears on the Gay forum in such a way that unwittingly denegrates being Gay.

So this forum seems like a good way forward.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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