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#13113 - 10/17/02 08:44 PM Moderator - why ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Guys

Earlier this week I lifted a post off the forum, not something I did lightly or without a lot of thought I promise you.
And I thought it might be useful if I tried to explain my reasoning for removing the post and the criteria I felt I needed to apply to my decision.

I removed the post, a reply to an origional post, fairly quickly so it was probably unseen by many of you. Whether the first poster, who's feelings I was trying to protect, saw it I don't know.
Forgive me for not revealing names, but this is solely about my reasons and the way I work, not so much as an apology, but as an explanation of what I tried to achieve and how I arrived at the decision to lift the post.

When I removed the post, which was fully intended to be helpful and posted with the best intentions; but unfortunately made assumptions about a third party who isn,t a member and that I judged to be very upsetting, I sent a private message to the member concerned outlining my reasons, offering support for his intentions, and asked that he repost in a slightly different manner.

I used the phrase -"I judged" - a VERY subjective thing. My judgement of what's upsetting isn't everyone elses - I know that from previous experience, it's all to easy to misinterpret a statement. Or apply my values, and I suppose that's inevitable and unavoidable to a great extent. Although in this instance the administrators and those that have seen it agree with me that it was likely to be very upsetting.

This incident hasn't created a big problem, although the member who's post it was did send a message to the administrators asking why I did it and expressing some displeasure. He also thought he was likely to be barred from the forum, which was never an option.
And this possible misunderstanding is the main spur for me explaining what I try to do.

The last thing I want to see happen is new members, who are feeling their way around with all of the problems that bring us here in the first place, fail to get the best out of this wonderful site. And more importantly the unfailing support from all the other members.
And this has also shown me just how easy it is for someone to suddenly feel "put down" once again, at a time when it's the last thing they need.

Another point it's driven home to me is just how much thought I need to put into how I deal with these things, it's a massive amount. And I can't escape that - don't intend to, it's what I choose to do.
I have to balance the possible feelings and likely reactions of everyone. And work with my own set of standards- which can be vastly different to yours.

I'm as sure as I can possibly be it was the right thing to do, and I have no problem with doing it this week or again in the future.
But I do believe it's important for me to explain, the best I can, how I work. You all deserve that and I hope this goes some way to making it clearer.

I get a great deal from helping here, it's helped me to become the survivor I am today. And I would hate to think that my best intentions would make someone who came here for help go, and not come back.

Thanks
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#13114 - 10/18/02 12:43 AM Re: Moderator - why ?
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
sounds like a lot of dobule talk please explain again or more fullly Thanks Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#13115 - 10/18/02 11:45 AM Re: Moderator - why ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Muldoon
About the post I lifted or the way I try to work ?

Thanks
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#13116 - 10/18/02 12:05 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
JamesMichael Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 134
Lloydy,

First, thank you for always doing yeoman's work as the moderator of this forum. Your efforts are appreciated very much.

I think what Muldoon is getting at is:

What are the parameters you use for deleting a post?

In general terms, what was it about the post that went beyond the parameters you work within.

I don't think I saw the post in question, so I'm not questioning your judgement. As far as I'm concerned you don't need to offer an explanation. However, if you're going to offer one of your own volition then give some concrete criteria for how you make these kinds of decisions.

Certainly, this is not an easy task. Much of it would necessarily involve subjective calls of judgement to one's individual and collective sensibilities. Maybe you invoke parameters on a case by case basis. It's your call. When guys are offended, you've heard from them.

I find obviously flippant, graphic, and apathetic posts really offensive and damaging...especially to would-be adolescents readers. This is serious business.

Thanks for all you do,

James


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#13117 - 10/18/02 02:26 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Lloydy
Quote:
I get a great deal from helping here, it's helped me to become the survivor I am today. And I would hate to think that my best intentions would make someone who came here for help go, and not come back.
I thank you for all your hard work here and would never want to give you a hard time about your efforts. Just need a little more info on what your reason was for pulling this reply. Give some concrete criteria for how you make these kinds of decisions. Most all of us here would never want to harm anyone, we may just need some ground rules to go by.
Thanks for all your hard work. Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#13118 - 10/18/02 05:26 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
New to this Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 138
Loc: Mississippi
Lloydy,

I appreciate what you do for us. I know its not easy to draw a line with the issues we face. I also know that until I've walked in your shoes for a while, I won't understand all of your decisions. In the meanwhile I trust you to know what is appropriate and what is not.
No further explaination is needed for me(I'm confused enough by the first one).

Devon

_________________________
"Knowledge itself is power" Francis Bacon

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#13119 - 10/18/02 06:21 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Guys
Thanks for the support, I wasn't seeking that- but thanks.

To state a limit of what I would find intolerable would be impossible, and probably wrong.
All I seek to do is find a way of keeping the forum supportive and lively. I like it lively.
A bit of good debate and challenging views helps us all. We need to seek different views and explore them, even if we end up disagreeing with them completely. To consider them wakes us up.

The loose line I try to keep is avoiding people becoming upset, but what upsets one passes another by without a thought.
And with that in mind I think we all have to accept that we come here at some small risk of reading something that can upset or even trigger us. And if we feel that is too big a risk then are we in the right place ?
I can honestly tell you that some posts have knocked me sideways and made me question why I keep coming back.
But getting past that, dealing with it has been empowering. When I see the supportive and positive responses it all seems to make sense once again.

The post I lifted was making very specific assumptions about someones partner, who doesn't come here. I believed it would have been upsetting, it would have been to me I know.
So that's the standard I used.

Michael mentions flippant posts, well I have to hold my hand up there, I do have a dark sense of humour that gets the better ( or worse ) of me sometimes. But I don't see people getting flippant about the serious issues, that would be damaging.
The graphic stuff ? that's hard to deal with.
For many of us it's the language we know, and it's the language that expresses our anger.
There's a fine line between that and gratuitous bad language. Does anyone know where it is ?

I've done it again, another bloody great post !
but I've felt good about doing it and greatly appreciated the replies.
It's helped me to sort out for myself, and more importantly find out from you, where the limits should be.
Unfortunately it's impossible to lay down hard and fast rules, I wouldn't be here if that was the way it worked.

But a sense of common decency towards each other is a good starting place.

Keep the opinions coming.

Thanks
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#13120 - 10/18/02 11:06 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Thank YOU Lloydy!

(By the way check your private messages if you haven't in the last couple days)

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#13121 - 10/19/02 06:36 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
Thank you Lloydy, very much! I think you do a great job here. I am sure it takes a significant amount of your private time to be a moderator, and I appreciate that.


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#13122 - 10/21/02 02:35 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Think this says it all Lloydy
A sense of common decency towards each other is a good starting place.
Thanks again Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#13123 - 10/24/02 08:27 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I guess you've all noticed that we now have a posse of moderators here, and very welcome they are as well.

It's a great step forward I think, it's going to make awkward decisions that much easier for us all. And it's a sign that this is a good healthy community where people are prepared to help one another.

Welcome to you all.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#13124 - 10/24/02 11:30 PM Re: Moderator - why ?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Lloydy, this is great for you becuz it spreads the work load, which also makes it great for those who share it becuz they find fulfillment, which in turn makes us all richer! You've done a great job and I'm sure all of you will do a good job together! Good deal!

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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