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#13040 - 05/01/03 11:38 AM Re: My Torment
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Quote:
Originally posted by Les_Angry:
Hey Jim,

I think God gives us all temptations of one sort or another. I don't have attraction to guys, but sometimes I'll see a really hot 15 year old girl and I'll start thinking hmmm... what if... NO, NO.

You might ask why God made you be attracted to men through no choice of your own if you are not allowed to act on your urges. But I could all say the same thing about, like, Britney Spears. Why did God make me attracted to her if I am not allowed to act on my urges, its not fair!

I remember about 10 years ago I went home and saw relatives I hadn't seen in maybe 5 years. My first cousin who is maybe 5-7 years younger than me had matured to look identical to a younger version of my wife. Yaaaa. She always was very flirtatious with me, talk about conflict! Then I go home and my wife wants me to sleep with her... I think I waited a couple of days to clear my mind, or maybe I thought about someone who looked completely different than either of them just to be safe, I don't remember.

Anyway, I think God gives us all temptations of one sort or another. I don't blame or hate you or anyone else who struggles with urges you can't act on, because I think that describes all of us.

Peace
MO Healing
I don't know if this is the place for debate, but there's a fundamental flaw in your argument. Sure, if you're attracted to Britney Spears, you can't act on your attraction, but you can still have sexual relations with someone you ARE attracted to (your wife.) If you're gay and believe that it's against God then you're never going to be able to have sex with anyone you're attracted to.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#13041 - 05/01/03 01:49 PM Re: My Torment
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Quote:
I was trying to make a statement to anyone who would listen that I have a tormented soul and I am crying. I am crying because I have no-one to turn to. I am crying because I feel like going the way of WOZ . I am crying because I am not the man I am expected to be.

I feel like right now I can't go further, and I was trying to say something, anything to anyone who would listen.
Jim, I'm sorry you're in such pain. It's true I can't, nobody can when you get down to it, understand your situation and know the depth of anguish and suffering you're in.

What I can do is listen to your story. I can relate, in my own way, to being in such despair and inner pain and turmoil; where it seems like there are no answers, no way out of the depths of hell (inside our head).

I can relate to feeling trapped in a life that has it's good points and but seems to have far more bad points. I can really, really relate to feeling like I have no inner core of strength, no foundation of having gotten the healthy love and attention I needed when I was growing up.

You're not alone Jim. Many of us here have had such god awful trauma that we've gone many times to the abyss' edge to take a look at jumping in (aka suicide). I've cried over my losses in life soo much I've gotten tired of doing it, but I have so much more to do. I know I can count on going into my pain at least once a week when seeing my T, and usually two or three times a week... bad sleepless nights, memories, grief, etc. ad nauseum.

I've been in an inner place where I couldn't hear or understand what other's (T's, doctors, friends) were saying when trying to help me.

I think we (forum posters) tend, as men are taught or hard wired to do, we tend to want to fix the problem like it's a car engine needing a new spark plug. This isn't a bad thing, but sometimes we want to help another man so bad we forget to listen, or... we start inserting our own judgemental values on another man when sharing from our own experiences and beliefs.

How can I help you Jim? Do you want or need advice? Do you just need someone to listen and understand your situation?

jer


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#13042 - 05/01/03 04:25 PM Re: My Torment
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
SP - good catch in understanding and listening (thank you!).

"if you're attracted to Britney Spears, you can't act on your attraction, but you can still have sexual relations with someone you ARE attracted to (your wife.) If you're gay and believe that it's against God then you're never going to be able to have sex with anyone you're attracted to." HALLELUJA, SOMEONE GETS IT!

Let me add a few more if's: If you're gay and believe it is against God AND you KNOW that your family will reject you (because they've said it in so many words) and your wife has TOLD you on two occaisions in very clear, concise terms of the concesequences (becoming an outcast, divorce, taking everything she possible can from me, short of my life because then the money obviously stops) and the very real possibility of my kids rejecting me when they grow up and KNOW that it's against God and Mom has fed them all these years that I'm lower than Whale Shit. You know that that is reality because her sisters have done it to their ex husbands and her mother did it to her father.

I feel trapped because I know deep in my hear that staying means giving up any semblance of ever having satisfaction in sex/relationships. Everyone is so easy to say that sex is a minor part of life. HELLO, if it were, then why wouldn't we all just be absitent and then there'd be no AIDS, unwanted pregnancies and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US WOULD ONLY USE IT FOR PROCREATION.

I am trapped because I know it will mean giving up any and all things that have ever made me feel good. It means making that pipeline of satisfaction which currently feels like a one-way valve outward from me, even bigger, only this time it becomes permanently outward and sooner or later, I run out. My satisfaction will no longer matter, that is clear.

To all of you who have strongly suggested that I stay with my wife, watch my kids grow old, have grandkids etc, you are right. It is the only way to go. It makes sense because the alternative price to pay is too great. No way out. I chose this bed, now I must sleep in it even if I can't fall asleep it's what I've got.

To all of you who say that I should just accept being gay and that the consequense REALLY aren't that bad, you don't get it. You don't get it because you're not here, you don't know my wife, my family.

There is no such thing as a friend to turn to, there are none. There will be none because now that my wife knows all, I can never ever think of having a male friend. There would always be suspicions and any time spent with him, even playing golf or having a beer would be seen as robing her of time that I owe her and the kids. Guys, please don't patronize me on this. It is my reality. It has already happened, it is happening. How can I say this? Because she's told me clearly and concisely, over and over again. I submit.

In the end, I didn't intend for this post to make people feel sorry for me or anything. More than anything else, I have no friends to turn to and I just need an outlet. I appreciate all of you for listening. You're all I've got. ;\)

Jim


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#13044 - 05/01/03 06:11 PM Re: My Torment
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Jake I did not imply that you have. I said that I have been guilty of that and I think we all have at one time or another. Self pity is "Why me" Why not someone else and shit like that.

You are one who has obviously made the right choices for you and I admire you for doing it on your own.
Yeh I did drugs cause it was given to me when I was helpless by some cops. I take responsibility for that because I sold myself to them to let them do what they wanted in the hopes that they would kill me cause I did not have the guts to do it myself. I take full responsibility for that.
What I dont take responsibility for is the constant physical abuse at home or the sexual perversions of my perps at military college. That was piss poor timing on my part and being born to the wrong family.
Yes I do get the poor me's and quite often. Does that make less of a man. I guess it does according to some.
A beautiful woman came into my life at a critical time. Should I have pushed her away because of what I had become. I guess I should have.
I must take responsibility for my life. Therefore I am a piece of shit and not worthy of living and so I try to end it. Well let me tell you I tried that too and it was dead wrong.
And, even with all my faults, I can now feel a little more comfortable saying that inside I am not such a bad asshole.
Once again I did not mean to demean or suggest anything and if you took it that way I appologize. Maybe I should shut up too.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#13045 - 05/01/03 07:29 PM Re: My Torment
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
In the end, I didn't intend for this post to make people feel sorry for me or anything. More than anything else, I have no friends to turn to and I just need an outlet. I appreciate all of you for listening. You're all I've got.
Jim,

I hope I did not come across as lecturing you. I'm pretty sure I did not send you the message I wanted to send.

We're here for each other. That's the whole reason this board is here. We, the male survivors of sexual abuse, find strength, make strength, by sharing ourselves here.

So, you're absolutely correct that we're here and you've got us. Jer hit the nail on the head:

Quote:
How can I help you Jim? Do you want or need advice? Do you just need someone to listen and understand your situation?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I would like to do what I can to help you in this time. I'd bet that many others here would, too.

Don't let my being slow on the uptake hinder your use of the boards for what you need them for. I'll try my best to listen without being judgmental.

HTH,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#13046 - 05/01/03 11:32 PM Re: My Torment
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Jim,

Your last post there made things a lot clearer. Still you don't owe me or any of us any detailed explanations.

At any rate, I obviously just don't get it. But that's not important. The important thing is that you get it out, and do what you can with it, as limited & as difficult as your options may well be.

Sorry if I offended you.

Quote:
You know when honesty and openness becomes easy? When hiding it all becomes too much to bear.
Jeff,

A quote for the ages. Thanks for your very open & honest sharing.

Quote:
I don't blame or hate you or anyone else who struggles with urges you can't act on, because I think that describes all of us.
Ditto, Mo. And thanks for sharing your struggles & temptations; I relate to them all too much.

Quote:
we choose to believe what we want. i choose to believe that there are more things than what is at the surface. i choose to search for an understanding of those things. i choose to learn from them, and use this life for something, considering it was given to me, and should not be wasted. i choose to search deeper, and in doing so, i see my flaws. i choose to acknowledge those flaws, and if that makes me some kind failure, so be it. that cannot be helped. i am not satisfied with merely saying i have a choice. i want to know what drives that choice.

and for that, i am not one of you.
Jake, if you say that makes you not one of "us," that is your choice, tho I hope it's one you don't make. Believe me, I am very driven to find what drives the choices I make. It's just that when the rubber hits the road, I want to be the one driving my choices, irregardless of other forces that have driven my choices. That doesn't stop me from constantly asking why. Even tho my T says I ask it too much.

Jim, tho I don't understand, I certainly echo what Joe says.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#13047 - 05/02/03 05:54 AM Re: My Torment
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Jake,

your two posts here could have been written by me....

"i choose to search deeper, and in doing so, i see my flaws. i choose to acknowledge those flaws, and if that makes me some kind failure, so be it. that cannot be helped."

So many times I have searched deep inside me for answers and as I have found the answers, I have found my flaws and therefore the reasons for much of my pain throughout life.

You say "in terms of family, i didn’t have a childhood. i’ve been adult as long as i can remember, and i’ve never had any feeling of being an ‘innocent’ child. i was taught and learned to put my family first, and as a result, i pour everything into them, without concern for myself. i grew tired of sex, and now have no real desire for it. "

Same story. In recognizing my flaws, my despair, I now see no desire for anything. At some point I may gain the understanding of why this is so.

So many of us have lost childhoods. We were never nor can we ever be children. It's past. It was robbed. At the moment I'm grieving just a slight bit for that child I never was.

I see kids playing happily and I feel week and want to melt. I just want to sink into the shadows as quickly as I can because it can be nothing more than a dream. It is my fantasy - to be reborn as that boy I see, playing on the street, happy. Carefree. Loved.

Able to throw a baseball without being laughed at.

I wanted a son to love, but was granted three daughters instead. That's ok, it's my destiny. I love them no less.

As corny as it may sound, somewhere out there in the universe of time, there is a boy. His name was not BOY, as his father only called him.

His name was Jim ;\)


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