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#13030 - 04/30/03 10:55 PM Re: My Torment
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Well, Jim, if your final conclusion is that you are going to stay in the same situation that you're in now, then... well... I'm not sure why you posted this?

I run across this a lot. It seems like you're looking for us to tell you a way to stop being gay. That's not possible. You have two choices: either stay with your family, and be unfulfilled, or admit that you are gay and risk being shunned. Either choice is difficult, but... that's life, I guess.

Just because you are gay, though, does not mean your children will hate you or dislike you at all. Many couples that have divorced because of one member's homosexuality still have equal involvement in their children's lives. It's not like it is something you can help. It's not like a divorce because of unfaithfulness... you didn't choose to be gay.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#13031 - 05/01/03 04:34 AM Re: My Torment
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Victor, I'm thinking REAL HARD HERE. Yes, there are choices. I give up myself and submit to one lifestyle or I give up my family and accept another lifestyle.

IT IS PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Why can't anyone understand this!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

Just as I was walking across an overpass yesterday evening, I had a choice of either jump or not. I thought real hard. The choice was there.

It is so unbelievably easy for those of you who are not married and have accepted your lifestyle and come out to your family to say that I have a FUCKING CHOICE.

It is also painfully apparent that many of you out there who ARE married and have made peace with yourselves and accepted and embraced your hetero side do NOT UNDERSTAND what it means to be in that situation without ANY desire for women.

Sick Pup, I appreciate your comments. However, my understanding of this site (as previously posted in another topic started by me on the usefulness of this site)is that it is to be a place where we can be open and talk freely about our issues. If this is not that, then I guess I'm in the wrong place.

I was trying to make a statement to anyone who would listen that I have a tormented soul and I am crying. I am crying because I have no-one to turn to. I am crying because I feel like going the way of WOZ . I am crying because I am not the man I am expected to be.

I feel like right now I can't go further, and I was trying to say something, anything to anyone who would listen.

I am sorry if you feel like I was cruel and hurtful. It is not my intention to hurt anyone at all. I am sorry that my cynicism came through as hateful. I do not intend that. You are a beautiful person and I am grateful that you are here.

I am screaming because it feels like no-one understands.

That is all. Thanks.

Jim


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#13032 - 05/01/03 07:39 AM Re: My Torment
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
jim,

i understand all too well. i am bi-sexual, and worse, zoosexual. I worship the same God as you, and am given the same set of rules. I cannot be those things and honor my faith. i know that conflict because i live it every day. i could turn away from my faith this moment, give myself over to the things i want, and give up all that i have, but i can't.

i feel trapped in a world that assigns me morality that doesnt fit the core of who i am. rather it was life, or some flawed gene, i am sexually atracted not only to women, but men and animals. those are undeniable facts, and as long as i lived by feelings and emotions, there was no way out.

there is another way, to live by logic and intellect. to know your emotions are lying to you when they call you worthless and sick, and to believe the logic instead of the heart. logic says you are not worthless, because your wife and kids value you. intellect says that being with a man is wrong, and again your emotions are lying to you. How do you live? You downplay and fight off the emotions with logic and intellect. you label those feeligns and voices for what they are, lies, a pack of lies.

yes, i could go be with men, women and animals. i could give my self over to all those sexual lusts, and would i be any happier? no, i would only feel lost and sick. i have spoken of acceptance and hope. acceptance is realizing it is okay to want to be with a man, and it is okay to want anything in the world. then comes a choice. i am bi-sexual, but i choose to be with my wife. i want to be with other women, but i choose to be with my wife. choice doesnt have to be a bad thing. it seems bad because you focus on what you are loosing instead of what you are gaining. by choosing your wife you give up the chance to be with men, but look at what you in place of that. you watch your kids grow andlearn and prosper. you watch them enjoy what you never had. we all make choices in life, and with each choice we give up something in exchange for something else. i stopped focusing on those things i lost, and began focusing on my gains. it has really helped me.

yes, i still want men and animals, but i have made a choice, a logical, heart-felt choice to be where i am. i have given up one pleasure for another, not sacrificed all of me, but part of me. i dont know if i can get my meaning across in terms you will pick up on, but i surely hope so. i feel i understand you more than you know. in many ways, i am you, only a little further down the line as far as coming to grips with things.

take care
jeff

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#13033 - 05/01/03 09:11 AM Re: My Torment
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Jeff.

What can I add. Nothing! It comes down to choices and what you are gaining
Thankyou

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#13034 - 05/01/03 09:26 AM Re: My Torment
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Jim again
Quote:
I was trying to make a statement to anyone who would listen that I have a tormented soul and I am crying. I am crying because I have no-one to turn to. I am crying because I feel like going the way of WOZ . I am crying because I am not the man I am expected to be.

I feel like right now I can't go further, and I was trying to say something, anything to anyone who would listen.

What kind of man are you expected to be? And by whom? All you can be is the man you are. You are a nurturing father and provider. Dammit man that is a huge thing. You have made sure, to the best of your ability, to protect your family from that terrible evil that we all suffered here. Another huge thing.

You are only looking at one part of yourself and that is just a small piece of you. As zadok says you must choose and think of what you are gaining instead of losing.

Jim we do listen to you. We listen, we offer suggestions, we have been where you are and we have made our choices to our benefit.

I really am sorry that you are in such pain but do not ever contemplate what WOZ did. That is letting the perps win totally. Jim you are worth more than that. It is also pretty selfish on your part. Who will explain to your children and wife. What kind of burden will they carry throughout their lives. You dont want to hurt anybody so think about that.
And finally what about the new emembers who arrive here almost daily, taking their first tentative steps out of what they perceive to be a hopeless situation. IF we do what you are comtemplating we send them a pretty strong message dont we.

Am I unconcerned about how you feel. Definetly not. Like Zadok I was involved with men animals and there is no perverted thing I have not been involved in. But that does not stop me from trying to be a decent person in my own eyes. My Choice again.

Hope this helps

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#13035 - 05/01/03 10:14 AM Re: My Torment
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Jeff,
You were incredibly open and honest. Thanks for sharing yourself with us. And all it can do is help everyone here, including yourself.
Take care,
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#13036 - 05/01/03 10:24 AM Re: My Torment
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
You know when honesty and openness becomes easy? When hiding it all becomes too much to bear. I cannot describe the embarrassment of having my wife catch me with all the bestiality porn, and furry garbage, but I also cannot deny that as healing came, it was a relief as well. As hard as it was to face the truth, it is harder hiding it.

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#13037 - 05/01/03 10:36 AM Re: My Torment
randy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa
My friend,
You speak in such absolutes.
"I give up myself and submit to one lifestyle or I give up my family and accept another lifestyle."
That is what you think and fear will happen.
Who said you have to give up your family?
Who said you had to have one or the other?
You can have both!!
They will just be different.
You seem to have a lot of love in your heart.
There would beplenty of room for both.
do you love your woman as a person if not as a lover? If you do then a great friendship could develop between you. It is not all dark and pointless. A new life comes after you make peace with your own decisions.
I do understand how you are feelling. I have dealt with this same issue.
All I really want to say is dont be so sure what will be the outcome of any revelations you make.


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#13038 - 05/01/03 10:59 AM Re: My Torment
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
Hey Jim,

I think God gives us all temptations of one sort or another. I don't have attraction to guys, but sometimes I'll see a really hot 15 year old girl and I'll start thinking hmmm... what if... NO, NO.

You might ask why God made you be attracted to men through no choice of your own if you are not allowed to act on your urges. But I could all say the same thing about, like, Britney Spears. Why did God make me attracted to her if I am not allowed to act on my urges, its not fair!

I remember about 10 years ago I went home and saw relatives I hadn't seen in maybe 5 years. My first cousin who is maybe 5-7 years younger than me had matured to look identical to a younger version of my wife. Yaaaa. She always was very flirtatious with me, talk about conflict! Then I go home and my wife wants me to sleep with her... I think I waited a couple of days to clear my mind, or maybe I thought about someone who looked completely different than either of them just to be safe, I don't remember.

Anyway, I think God gives us all temptations of one sort or another. I don't blame or hate you or anyone else who struggles with urges you can't act on, because I think that describes all of us.

Peace
MO Healing


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#13039 - 05/01/03 11:28 AM Re: My Torment
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Jeff,
Quote:
You know when honesty and openness becomes easy? When hiding it all becomes too much to bear.
Ain't that the truth! And it feels really good to be honest with yourself and everyone around you.

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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