Newest Members
JHNebraska, mike42069, JACKL, Personman, SiegmundNYC
12490 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Alpha (49), AYounglove10 (23), joanne (27), justme62 (52), pontifixmax (44), royjay (46), Steve S. (48)
Who's Online
3 registered (3 invisible), 18 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12490 Members
74 Forums
64155 Topics
447649 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#128913 - 08/31/04 12:47 AM What is Forgiveness?
CFO Dave Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 104
Loc: Millis MA
In couples therapy today the T asked if I forgave my wife.

My wife fell in love with someone on the internet. No sex but lots of love. And during that time she was not in love or even in like with me.

So what is forgiveness? I can accept it. I can move beyond it because I do still love her and want to stay married to her but do I forgive her?

_________________________
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
-Madame Swetchine

"The soul that is within me no man can degrade."
-Frederick Douglas

Top
#128915 - 08/31/04 10:42 PM Re: What is Forgiveness?
Pete2004 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 958
Loc: North Carolina
Dave:

One thing that helps me to walk into forgiveness is remembering that forgiving doesn't mean that the person never hurt me or wronged me. That person hurt me or there would not be a need to forgive. For me, forgiveness creates a safe environment for a marriage to heal, a friendship to be restored, for children to learn how to grow up more emotionally healthy. Forgiveness can be scary, but it can free your soul and spirit at the same time.

Pete

_________________________
There is a destiny that makes us brothers;
No one goes his way alone;
What we send into the lives of others,
comes back into our own. (Edwin Markham)

Top
#128916 - 09/02/04 02:51 AM Re: What is Forgiveness?
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Dave,

My boyfriend found someone on the internet too. It ended before I found out about it. I don't think he liked me very much during this time, I don't know if he liked the other girl either. I don't really think he liked anyone.

In my opinion, forgiveness always happens between two people (unless you are forgiving yourself).

Alone, you can accept what has happened to you. You can put your own feelings behind you and move forward and all that. But to really feel as though she's been forgiven, I think you need her involved.

To me, if I want to be forgiven, I have to try to understand and empathize with the person I have hurt, and I have to honestly regret what I have done (to that person, not just any damage I may have caused myself). The desire for forgiveness is really a desire to reclaim the pain and damage of the person I hurt, which are rightfully mine (because I caused them).

If someone asks for my forgiveness, I have to be willing to allow them access to my pain once again, because they need to see and hear it, they need to take it back from me. If that person just wants to put MORE bad feelings on me in the shape of their remorse, that's not forgiveness. And, I have to be willing to let go of my pain, so that I can give it back. It is scary to forgive.

I wish you and your wife the best of luck in building a loving marriage.

SAR


Top
#128917 - 09/02/04 09:58 AM Re: What is Forgiveness?
CFO Dave Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 104
Loc: Millis MA
Thanks. This isn't going to be easy. Based on what you've said, and the dictionary definition, I'm not sure I've ever really forgiven anyone for anything. Perhaps it's just the depth of the needed forgivness that makes this situation so difficult. I hope the couples T doesn't try to force this. I don't think my wife FULLY understands the pain she caused.

_________________________
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
-Madame Swetchine

"The soul that is within me no man can degrade."
-Frederick Douglas

Top
#128918 - 09/02/04 10:55 AM Re: What is Forgiveness?
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
Originally given to me by ‘The Dean’ aka Fr. Bob:

******************
RESENT SOMEONE

The moment you start to resent a person, you become his slave. He controls your dreams, absorbs your indigestion, robs you of your peace of mind and good will, and takes away the pleasure of your work. He ruins your religion and nullifies your prayers. You cannot take a vacation without him going along.

He destroys your freedom of mind and hounds you wherever you go. There is no way to escape the person you resent. He is with you when you are awake. He invades your privacy when you sleep. He is close beside you when you eat, when you drive your car and when you are on the job. You can never have efficiency or happiness. He influences even the tone of your voice. He requires you to take medicine for indigestion, headaches and loss of energy. He even steals your last moment of consciousness before you go to sleep. So--if you want to be a slave--harbor your resentments.
******************
Forgiveness is ultimately about accepting your own humanity and the humanness of the person you feel has wronged you. It can be an admission to your own self that you have been wounded but that may not have been the deliberate intention of the person that harmed you. It can be you saying to yourself “I am hurt by this, but I don’t want to keep on hurting.”

Forgiveness may not be simple and it may not be easy, but it is very powerful.

Z.


Top
#128919 - 09/02/04 02:45 PM Re: What is Forgiveness?
Dan88 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
Brian,
That is great. Thanks for putting it up. Boy do I love to carry my resentments. And that passage just about says it all when it comes to explaining why they are such heavy baggage.


Top
#128920 - 09/03/04 02:58 AM Re: What is Forgiveness?
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
I think that forgiveness is more about us then the person we are forgiving. It is about the qualities within us. Now, I am not saying to not forgive makes us evil or bad. I do not forgive my father. Some things, I do not forgive of my mother. I do not forgive the men who hurt me or others I love and care about. But *I* am still a good person. I do not feel lesser or worse of myself for not having that forgiveness right now. A friend of mine, he would have much harder time dealing with himself if he didn't have the forgiveness toward those who hurt him. It is just our different personalities. Neither of us is better, worse, right or wrong.

Do what YOU feel you need to do. Not what others tell you you must do.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

Top
#128921 - 09/03/04 11:02 PM Re: What is Forgiveness?
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
I've been watching this thread for a while. This is something that I need to know more about, and you've given me a lot here.

SAR, I took a class in college on reconciliation, and I don't think I ever understood it as well as you have described it.
Quote:
To me, if I want to be forgiven, I have to try to understand and empathize with the person I have hurt, and I have to honestly regret what I have done (to that person, not just any damage I may have caused myself). The desire for forgiveness is really a desire to reclaim the pain and damage of the person I hurt, which are rightfully mine (because I caused them).

If someone asks for my forgiveness, I have to be willing to allow them access to my pain once again, because they need to see and hear it, they need to take it back from me. If that person just wants to put MORE bad feelings on me in the shape of their remorse, that's not forgiveness. And, I have to be willing to let go of my pain, so that I can give it back. It is scary to forgive.
I think it's difficult as well as scary. I understand why a lot better now, and why it is sometimes necessary.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

Top
#128922 - 09/04/04 05:05 AM Re: What is Forgiveness?
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Joe,

Thank YOU for saying
Quote:
sometimes necessary.
I would be upset too, Dave, if your couples T tried to force this. There was a long thread about infidelity on the F&F forum some time back... some on forgiveness, but more on acceptance.

Forgiveness comes when and if it comes. You can choose to accept any time you like. You can accept the past as the past, accept the present as a new beginning, and NOT accept any further damage to your marriage as a result of the past, all without forgiving.


Top
#128923 - 09/04/04 11:17 PM Re: What is Forgiveness?
CFO Dave Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 104
Loc: Millis MA
Quote:
If someone asks for my forgiveness, I have to be willing to allow them access to my pain once again, because they need to see and hear it, they need to take it back from me.
Tried this. My wife didn't like hearing just how bad she made me feel.

Quote:
Forgiveness comes when and if it comes. You can choose to accept any time you like. You can accept the past as the past, accept the present as a new beginning, and NOT accept any further damage to your marriage as a result of the past, all without forgiving.
I agree that I can move forward without forgiving and just not let the past damange the future. I need to continue this with the couples T.

Thanks to everyone.

_________________________
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
-Madame Swetchine

"The soul that is within me no man can degrade."
-Frederick Douglas

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.