Newest Members
jeremywickers, JScott12, TMatti2, DaiseyLady, uvagrad4
12501 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
innocence (60), pablo999 (53)
Who's Online
5 registered (CheerfulJohn, Tiger1982, 3 invisible), 26 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12501 Members
74 Forums
64189 Topics
447913 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#128690 - 08/23/04 01:03 AM had it with this place!!!!
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
I have had it with this so-called 'brotherhood'.

There is no love, no support here unless you are the 'one'. The one who dominates each and every discussion on this board.

He is someone who has many trials and tribulations. He has created a great circle of support from his <25 year old MS members.

Isn't it interesting.

This website is not at all about supporting survivors of sexual abuse. It is NOT a brotherhood.

It is a click.

You're either in or you're not.

I shouldn't complain because it's not different than that in real life.

Some people can hurt, can cry, can talk about it and be consoled, loved, shown compassion.

Others, are slapped, spit on, stomped on, hated.

I've thought all day today about why it is that the 'one' so upsets and triggers me.

It is because here, in this so-called safe place, he is treated with the same love, patience and affection as my father was by my family, my mother, his family, now my brother and sisters.

Here if you disagree with the 'one', then you are evil, you are a liar, a fraud, you are a fake, deceitful.

It was the same with my father. Nothing I could ever do was good enough for anyone. Only if I towed the party line of my father was I worthy of anything. I could not. I may have been biologically my fathers son, but in every other way I was and am the anti-Christ.

The only touch I ever received from my father has from his fist. It is the same with the 'one'. I only get the fist of the ultimate....I am a liar and a fraud. I am that because I lied to my ex-wife and kids for 15 years.

I am gay.

Now I have the added and validated extra baggage of being the sinner. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

I pray so often that God would just take me away and send me to hell when I sleep. I do not have the guts to do it during the day when I'm asleep.

Yes, it's come to that. I have thrown away my marriage because I am a sinner. I am gay. I want to be ok, but it doesn't work that easily.

I tried unsuccessfully to answer a challenge of being a fraud and a liar. I was continuously interrupted. By the 'one'.

No one heard me.

It's the same with my family. My mother calls me Satan. My sister says I can't be gay because God doesn't make mistakes.

The truth hurts.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Thank you for reminding me.

Why can't God take it away? Perhaps some are just destined to be punished, it is their future. I am punished because of what happened. God hates me. Don't say he doesn't because it just is so. God hates the freaks.

I wanted my cousin to love me. He was the only one who cared or looked at me, or touched me. Only thing was, it wasn't the right kind of touch.

I let it happen. No-one to tell. Didn't matter anyway cause no-one would have believed me.

Just like in 8th grade when my father got angry at me and stripped me naked and beat me with his belt so badly as I begged for mercy, that I had whelts and blood stripes on my back. My gym teacher asked what happened. I said I had a bike accident. He walked away.

It's that simple.

I don't want any sympathy or pity. Because I am angry. And I want to simply go to sleep and not wake up.

No one hears me. But everyone hears the 'one'.

It's ok. He deserves it. He hurts.

Pray for him.


He deserves it.


Jimmer


Top
#128691 - 08/23/04 01:25 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Jim,

There's a lot of pain in your post, I can sense that pretty easily. Frankly, after coming here and learning so much from everyone, I don't care if anyone is gay, straight, bi-sexual, a-sexual, or celibate. This board has opened my eyes to my own prejudice (homophobia) of the past, and I feel quite ashamed to have thought like I did then. While I'm straight and the thought be being with a man does nothing for me, I'm ashamed of the judgments I had of others before.

We (survivors, recoverers, brothers, whatever word you like to use) are, in my opinion, an interesting lot, because we were all dealt a hand of shit in life, yet we're still alive, consuming oxygen, still trying to make a go of it. Gotta be a reason for it.

I can hear the frustration in your post, and I know we can all feel at times that we are one lone voice crying in the wilderness. Not so, in my opinion - you're being heard and your frustration is being felt.

Hoping for peace for you, Jim, I know you've had a crappy childhood. Night before last I was laying in bed with my wife talking, trying to explain the frustration I'm feeling with it being like no one can understand what's going on within me. I get the feeling you feel the same way.

I hope this rambling post of mine has helped you some, I really do.

_________________________
Eddie

Top
#128692 - 08/23/04 01:37 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
You are correct Eddie, no-one seems to understand. They post things about understanding but really they don't.

I remember lying in bed next to my wife over a year ago, late in the evening talking about things. She didn't get it.

The only thing she understood was that I was 'disordered' (as the Catholic Church calls homosexuality). We went to a Catholic Church approved marriage counselor who'd worked with these 'issues' before.

I knew from the very second that I walked in and met him that I was a condemned soul. Yes he'd worked with people like me before. But there was no compassion or understanding.

What I needed to do was to stop being me. I needed to recognize and submit to complete self-denial.

I could only exist for the pleasure of my wife and my children. I must only perform and do my duties to give her pleasure. By extension then, also my children. I could not exist as a person.

I only went 2 or three times to that Catholic counselor. With each visit I became more distressed.

Now that the whole world knows, it may be easier to know that everyone thinks I'm a freak of nature. Like at least we are all looking at the same chalk board.

Occasionally like tonight, I'm reminded that it's all about hate the sin, love the sinner.

I want to throw up. I want to die. Doesn't anyone understand that?


Jimmer. :rolleyes:


Top
#128693 - 08/23/04 01:47 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Quote:
Originally posted by jimrh:
I want to throw up. I want to die. Doesn't anyone understand that?

Jimmer. :rolleyes:
I do. For the first week after I disclosed the abuse to my wife a few months ago, I literally felt like I was constantly going to throw up. On my way to work (which is on a curvy, wooded road), I was looking for suitable places to have an "accident". Luckily, I never got past the looking stage of that, although I feel I was very near it. It was as though I were a condemned man for having exposed my insides so completely, like I had disembowled my soul. For a solid month, I cried every day, several times a day.

My wife still doesn't have a grasp on what's really going on with all this, and I don't know that she ever truly will. But I keep hoping.

_________________________
Eddie

Top
#128695 - 08/23/04 11:26 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Aden Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
Jim,

If Marc and I can make peace and get along, then there is hope for anything!

You are right, the world is ugly sometimes. I want to lay down, go to sleep and never wake up. Fortunatly, that is going to happen. But not today. Stay with us an maybe you can help us heal. It will be a good mark on your judgment chart when you reach the gates of heaven.

Aden


Top
#128696 - 08/23/04 12:01 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Jim,

Yes, there is hostility, but it's because we're ALL hurting, ALL dealing with crap we shouldn't have to, all having to get over the self-loathing.

ep, we all hate ourselves, and sometimes it's easier to deal with when we lash out and hate each other.

This is where abuse comes from.

But for all this, this pain, this whacking away AT each other, there IS love and support. Some of us need more of it than others because we're in so much Goddamn pain that we can see Hell from where we are, and it doesn't look that bad

God hates me because I was abused by men. And a part of me (yeah, physical response, but it WAS a response!) liked it. God hates me because I'm attracted to men, that I ACT upon this, that I may be gay or bi, despite LOATHING what was done to me by trickery or force, that I'm persuing relationships with men, that I had sex with married men, that I'm a no-good Goddamn LOSER who was a failure at everything, including being a Goddamn Catholic!

But from some of the guys and gals here, I learned that there are people who understand me, who love me even though I'm a mistake, who accept me even though I'm a freak, and make me see I have a purpose in life and gifts to share even though I'm a screw-up loser.

Hell, even Paul, the Rock, was Saul, the moneylender once.

Jim, there is hope. Yeah, we are a brotherhood who tears into each other, who can hate each other on occasion, but we ARE a brotherhood who shares our pain so it doesn't seem like quite a load anymore. And we share our joys, so we can spread the happiness we SHOULD'VE had all the Hell along as a birthright.

So you hang the heck around, my friend. Contribute. Be the man you are. Fight for what you think is right here. Because this IS ours, and it IS yours, and we are a brotherhood who CAN take control and make this place (and later, the World!) better!

There is an old story from China. And it deals with some of the selfishness you see, and the joy I see. A man asks his priest what Heaven and Hell is like. So the priest helps him to see Hell. It is a place with tables and tables of delicious food, yet the people are suffering and starving because the chopsticks they have are a yard. They cannot POSSIBLY eat, so they starve. Then, the man sees Heaven, and it's EXACTLY the same. Wonderful food, yard-long chopsticks, yet here, the people are happy and well-fed. How can this possibly be, the man wonders, until he sees the difference. In Heaven, the people help feed each other.

This is the place, Jim, where we go from trying to eat with our yard-long chopsticks to helping us feed each other.

Think about it.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

Top
#128697 - 08/23/04 03:12 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jim

sorry about all the pain you are in, it really is a hard World for anyone, without having to walk around with all the extra baggage, especially as nobody can see the "weight", of all this shit, if you told them, they would all be sooo nice to you, so you don't tell them, let them figure it out, and let them walk all over you, yeh, that's just what they do if you let them.

None of us really are looking for sympathy, sound strange? If we do, then the sympathy I mention above would be the same as in here, we are all by nature individual people, no two are the same.
I will get back to sympathy, I don't want it, nor do you, think about it, would you want everyone sending you sympathy messages all the time?

I don't for one minute think you would, sometimes we cry out, because we are hurting, it can be caused by so many different things, we may even be so unaware of the trigger to the emotion, maybe somethings in here well up inside and you dwell on them, I do, and unconsciously it can provoke or disturb your mind, this is only what I think.

I know that I have read things here, that really stare up some deep emotions, emotions that were locked away, then wow, what hit me! I think the path to survival, because it is done so long in the past, it had to be dealt with systematically by the mind, the mind is very clever indeed, imagine the amount of extra thought processes involved, just to keep you in a capable state of being able to survive, a lot of these are locked away somewhere in our minds, the more that we deal with now, the better it should get.

That is what I think, or just how I reason it, it should be easier to deal with, the older we get, but some things really are ghosts to me, and they show me, why, I am like I am today, We are not as screwed up as we think, if we can try and deal with the big stuff.

I think people on the outside of this really are the screw balls', they need the lesson we can teach them, but who's gonna do it, I won't.
Nobody knows cos nobody tells, if you do tell, they don't know, cos they don't have the capacity to care a shit about it, get the picture?

OK You say you are gay, so what has that got to do with it, here's were God comes into it

Quote:
Why can't God take it away? Perhaps some are just destined to be punished, it is their future. I am punished because of what happened. God hates me. Don't say he doesn't because it just is so. God hates the freaks.


God doesn't make freaks, we are all his children, we go our own way, he helped you get this far, you already are in the future, know why? Because like me you asked God so many times to take you, but he didn,t, he held your hand and brought you so far.

I think we all need this place far more than we think, we can get over the highest hurdles, if they are in our way, think of the one's behind you? Yes it took a lot of strength and willpower, it may sap your strength now, but you sure have a hell of a lot of it.

Hope this makes sense

take care

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#128698 - 08/23/04 04:53 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jim
I sincerely hope you reconsider and decide to stick around. MS is a haven for ALL of us.

The fallout from the last few days is bound to spread itself around and affect many of us.
But we can get over it I'm sure.

Take care Jim, and remember that if you do go, you can always come back.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#128699 - 08/24/04 01:16 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Kenn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Call it a coincidence but before I logged in and saw this post I wrote a poem tonight called "This Place". It's not about the MS web-site but about what brings us here...

This Place

When Iím in pain
Thereís this place I go
It seems Iím there
Before I know

Whatís made me move
Inside or out
Makes me scream
With never a shout

Iíd like to yell
Till my throat got hoarse
But it's not likely I will
Being so composed of course

Itís a confusing place
But comfortable too
Being at ease in pain
Iíve become accustomed to

Itís not a pain
ďRate it one to tenĒ
But an ache, a dread
Of what to do when

Pain subsides
Or I get distracted
And start to believe
Iíve over-reacted

My fate unsure
The end unwritten
I could fall in love
Or at least be smitten

But how could I love
When Iíve always questioned
How things could be,
Details not mentioned

A secret between friends
Is safe with me
But a secret pain
Wonít set me free.

_________________________
"This above all; to thine own self be true."

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

Top
#128700 - 08/24/04 02:38 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Forgotten or confused for someone else.

You know the value of your worth when you are subliminally or innocently or for whatever reason, are confused for someone else.

You know the value of your post when people react to your post but clearly have not read what you've said.

You know your value to the group when someone takes a neutral, politically correct stance. You know it then when you don't matter at all.

There is much pain here on this site.

Realize however, those of you who think that you matter, that in fact, unless you are part of the wolf pack or the 'brotherhood'.....you don't count.

If I could just find a way to end it so that my daughters can still get my life insurance, I would do it. I've yet to discover that way.

Some day perhaps I will.

Until then, cheers to all!

Jim


Top
#128701 - 08/24/04 07:29 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Jim,

Not the message I hoped you'd take away from all this.

Yes, this IS a brotherhood, and YOU belong to it, even when you don't feel like you do.

There is at least ONE person who cares about you, and hurts when you hurt. That one person will do their damndest to help you SEE how important you are to the world, and to them.

For now, I take a look at your daughters, and I think it's sad that the only thing you believe you can leave behind for them is a life insurance policy.

Think about this - are you SURE that's what THEY want? Money because their father felt so Goddamn alone and useless that he chased it it before some milestones were reached. Marriage? Grandkids? Support that THEY might need?

Are you sure that your pain will be over when you decide to end it? I'm not talking about simple "life after death" issues. I'm talking about that last thought before it's over - and that last thought being "they are going to hurt worse than I ever imagined, and I CHOSE to do this to them!" This is one reason I'm still here.

Are you sure that there truly isn't hope? One more smile around the corner? One more laugh? One more, "can you give me some advice because I need to hear from you?"

All valid questions. And their hard. I don't mean to add to your pain, but you HAVE to be sure you have no worth, that you don't belong.

Because I think you do. And I care about you.

Think about it, Jim.

PM me anytime you need to.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

Top
#128702 - 08/24/04 08:26 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Kenn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Jim and all:

I am still learning to recognize (read trust) the love of - and for - men. So in this forum I may sometimes seem to be wearing rose-coloured glasses.

But whatever it is that's going on in here- whether it's real or not, one dimensional or not - it beats the hell out of the places I have looked for love all my life, whether it was in bars, bath-houses, churches (some) or parks.

I did not seek, then find, this forum because I was well-adjusted, life-loving, self-affirming or trusting. But I live in hope that I will become part or all of those things.

In my lowest moments I can still marvel at how much I have come through - and survived. This leads me to believe that, down days notwithstanding, I will continue to survive as long as I can naturally draw breath. Sometimes it seems unbearable but never has it always seemed so. It feels like the ugly phase of a caterpiller becoming a butterfly, but I can alwasy look back and find something that has kept me going long enough to get through a bad patch.

Kenn

_________________________
"This above all; to thine own self be true."

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

Top
#128703 - 08/24/04 06:58 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jim
suicide isn't painless, as the theme from MASH said, it's very painful.

The pain of even contemplating suicide is deep and incomprehensible to those that haven't been there.
The pain of those left behind that love us, despite what we're going through, is beyond normal grief.

Over the years I've lost three friends to suicide, one was abused alonside me. The other two had other demons to contend with.
My brother tried and damn near succeeded, and we've talked often and frankly about suicide, because I've been there as well.
I know that it can look like the "answer" but I have learned since that it isn't.

How did I learn "my truth"? the hard way I guess.
By failing I saw things differently. It wasn't a blinding flash of inspiration or a vision, nothing as dramatic as that. Just a slow realization that suicide was final, and of no benefit to ANYONE, least of all me.

I don't know what will work for you, I wouldn't be that presumptuous, what I will give you though is support and friendship, an open ear, hopefully an open mind.
Your way through this difficult time will be yours to find, and find it you will.

We all need support and help at different times, if it's your time right now, then we're here to give freely.

Take care
Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#128704 - 08/25/04 10:34 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
CFO Dave Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 104
Loc: Millis MA
Jim,

Like Dave I wouldn't presume to tell you what will work for you.

What has always worked for me is that even when I'm that low I can always find one person to focus on. The thought of what that person would feel or do as a result of my suicide has always kept me going. Sometimes that person is my mother, my wife, a friend, my sister, my kids. At one point, just knowing what my boss would say about me after I was gone kept me going. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of being able to tell people he was right, that I wasn't strong enought to get that promotion.

Be strong Jim. We do care about you.

Dave

_________________________
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
-Madame Swetchine

"The soul that is within me no man can degrade."
-Frederick Douglas

Top
#128705 - 08/25/04 01:21 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Aden Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
Yes Jim,

Many of us can't read beyond our own intentions. We respond to things that were never said and ignor the intent of the speakers. And it is clear that it is a common problem which will not change just because we want it to.

What we have to do is look past the pack mentality. That isn't going to go away. There is nothing either of us can do or say to change that. But we can continue to use this source as a method of learning how to heal.

Loins, and Tigers, and Bears!. Oh my!! And even the Wizard isn't all that helpful.

Scant words of comfort from a flying monkey.

Aden


Top
#128706 - 08/25/04 06:30 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jim

I just read through your post again, I am deeply saddened to see how a father can treat his son. No father in the World ever has any right to do these things, to their children, sadly we see it all too often, I see the damage that parents and guardians can do to children, I work with giving benefits to these kids.

It hurts so deep, to see what they are put through, at such an early age, I cry for them, I hope they get the help, that we never got, but, whatever help they get, it cannot suffice for a normal nurturing family, and normal childhood.

My childhood was a battlefield brought on by SA, but the common element in abuse, is the mental challenge that does the damage, it damages us beyond any imagination, but only we know, just how challenging it was, nobody can ever know what challenges we all faced, but we did it, and it leaves so much mental garbage.

PM me anytime, if you want brotherhood, then maybe reach out to some of us here, we are here to listen, to care, I care, I listen. I can see your point, but never forget, we are all hurt here, and hurt so much, we think nobody cares, because that's what we always thought, that is what we always think, because we have lived a life of thinking, nobody cares.

Truth is, I care, I don't want to see anyone going through this mess and feeling alone, and without anyone to think he exists, we've all been there, and we know what it is like, when it happens, we think the World is such a lonely place, where nobody can see why there is so much hurt, we don't share it, because we are conditioned to bottle it up.

We can only be brothers, if we can make the move to embrace each other, but always remember this Jim, you are among brothers, the very one's who have been there and understand.

We may not have travelled the same road, but we have all travelled parallel in this World.

I always remember when I was a boy, thinking of other kids, going through this hell, and thinking!

If only I could say what I was thinking to a kid, who was going through the same shit as me, and going through the same problems, would he be a friend for life, I bet he would.

Is that not what brought you here?

I don't know, but don't let despair win, I know it is so strong sometimes, but look at the hand of friendship already reaching out to you on this thread.

Do we mean nothing?
Do we really care?

Jim, we aint here, not to care, we are here for each other, let us make it happen

take care

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#128707 - 08/25/04 07:22 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Dan88 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
Jim,
I've looked at your post probably 10 times and don't know what to say. But it moved me enough that I figure not replying is cowardice on my part.

I respect your openness and your ability to put your feelings out there and tell so much of your story. I'm deeply saddened when you talk about killing yourself and I hope you know that there are always other things to try before you hit that point. Take it from me, I've tried a lot of them and still think I've got plenty of things to try before I run out of options.

I understand some of what you say about their being a clique here. But I'm certainly not a part of it and I don't think the people who are do it to be hurtful. They're just finding support in a way that helps them.

As for me, I suppose I'm one of the drifters who comes in and out of this place and takes what he can and leaves the rest. Hope you'll join me in that approach to things here. I've found there's a lot of support here and besides, if you're not part of the clicque, you don't have to put up with all the drama that goes with that. ;\)

Hope you're taking good care of yourself.

Dan


Top
#441140 - 07/17/13 07:04 AM Re: had it with this place!!!! [Re: jimrh]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3587
Loc: O Kanada
jimrh!

brother!


I READ YOU LOUD AND CLEAR!
I HAVE THE EARS TO HEAR!
have no fear.
it's ok.
sometimes i feel the same way.
at least you know what to say.

vent and ventilate, brother, vent and ventilate!
drink in the love. spit out the hate!

you are in the perfect place to express yourself.

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.