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#12855 - 04/30/03 01:07 AM The shame that I harbor...
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Last Friday I had a really good session with my T. I opened up and addressed some issues that I had previously only skimmed over. I was really too embarrassed and ashamed to talk about them. But after talking about them I felt incredibly good. However, today I had an interesting incident that I need to talk about and it is closely related to my last session. This all involves my feelings of shame.

What I finally opened up about was my desire to cross-dress. Let me clear this up a little bit: When I was between 5-7 my sister had used me as her surrogate sex partner. Unlike many here I truly enjoyed my encounters. Sometime before my tenth birthday she had finally threw me to the side and rejected any of my advances. Those experiences gave me a taste of what an orgasm was and it left me with a strong desire for more. The only way I could possibly recreate the ecstasy was to snoop through her underwear drawer and absorb her essence. It eventually led to me trying on her underwear on a regular basis. It was probably a daily occurrence in my puberty years and eventually waned in my late teen years. I loved doing it. I truly did, but it was my deep, dark secret that I would never tell.

One time when I was around 10 I decided to take a piece of her underwear into my room so that I could enjoy it later that night. Unfortunately my mother found it. I remember sitting in the living room with my father. My mother came around the corner with it draped around her index finger and peered at me and asked, "What is this?", in a condescending way. Nothing more was said but the non-verbal communication was loud and clear. Whether she intended it or not, I felt like she was telling me that I was a horrible and despicable person for doing it. My father said nothing to me, like usual.

The embarrassment was horrible! I welled up with shame and all I wanted to do was run away. I vowed that I would never let myself go through that again. I was quite successful at that, however, that meant that I would shun all sexual relationships and development. Certainly there were other outside factors involved in my withdrawal but this was unfortunate nonetheless.

So today I was sitting with my father inside his truck at a UPS Store while waiting for a friend to arrive. The woman inside the store was absolutely beautiful and all I wanted to do was to be close to her. Unfortunately my father's presence made me feel so guilty for feeling this. He was like a cancer and all I wanted to do was punch him (figuratively, of course) and ask him why he was doing this to me. He did and said nothing but in that instant I hated him because I could fully see how the intense shame has locked me in place and prevented me from living. Ugg…It's horrible. (Please understand that I do love my dad despite much of what I say.)

I hope this didn't become too drawn out but I needed to get this off my chest.
Thanks for listening,
Mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#12856 - 04/30/03 01:14 AM Re: The shame that I harbor...
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Glad you shared it because it made perfect sense to me in many ways...

Don

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In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

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#12857 - 04/30/03 01:31 AM Re: The shame that I harbor...
RickL Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 84
Loc: Oregon
Mike,

When survivors like yourself have the courage to share something that touches their core of shame, it helps me to face my own shame.

I have lots of shame from my growing up. Mostly of feeling so "less than" other boys. I am now understanding that the intensely terrorizing programming of my dad caused me to be afraid of all boys when I was growing up. That is profoundly shameful for me, but the good news is the clarity of understanding I'm just coming to about it.

The other huge feeling of shame I have has to do with what turned me on sexually as an early adolescent. In fact, I'm too ashamed to share it here. I have shared it with only my therapist, and now, one other survivor friend. It was terrifiying to tell him about it. But it also helped to diffuse it.

So bravo, Mike. You set a great example for me.

Rick


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#12858 - 04/30/03 01:35 AM Re: The shame that I harbor...
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
WOW SLEEPY,
It made perfect sense to me too. It also resonates in me and I'm not quite sure why. I admire your courage here and the painful honesty you speak with. I can appreciate the depth of your painful shame. Thank you for the gift.


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#12859 - 04/30/03 01:43 AM Re: The shame that I harbor...
Roy Riverton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 2
Loc: Oregon
Sleepy,
I related to a lot of what you said in your post. Strange how a persons response to a similar situation can result in such a different out come.
I was sexually abused by my mother. She wore me down to the point that I learned to enjoy having sex with her. That all happened when I was 4-6 years old.
When I was 9 years old I got caught looking at Playboy magazines. I was so aroused at those pictures. I couldn't get enough of looking at them. My brother told on me in front of the whole family. My mother's response did me in. She made me feel so guilty and ashamed. It was the tone in her voice and the look in her eyes. I felt that if I ever wanted to be forgiven of God for what I had done that I could never, ever have a sexual thought about women. From that time on I felt no sexual feelings towards women and began to be attracted to men. It all came from my mother.
So, Sleepy--I have a couple of questions for you. (1) Your sister sexually abused you--who sexually abused your sister? And (2) When you were confronted for having your sisters underwear in your room why didn't your Dad say anything? I get the feeling he doesn't say much in your life.
Hang in there Sleepy and good luck to you.
Roy Riverton

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Roy Riverton

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#12860 - 04/30/03 07:45 AM Re: The shame that I harbor...
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Mike:

What you shared hits to my heart even more now than it would have just a few weeks ago. That's when some seemingly minor details of abuse memories recovered earlier made clear to me what I'd for years known but buried deep down along with all the abuse: My mother wanted me all to herself, and as I got older she was more & more
"grooming" me to be gay when I grew up, becuz she couldn't stand the thot of another woman having me

She would take me to nudist colonies or have her watch me having sex with men, even join in, and encourage me to look at/be with the men. But her attempt backfired when at age 11 she sold me to a gay couple who took me to their apartment & raped me. I was getting big & strong enuf to rebel against her, and now I was motivated enuf. I did.

Soon after a brief sexual identity struggle right after the rape, she gave up on me & put me in a children's home, becuz I was & became more heterosexual than ever.

What the hell did the bitch expect, after she overexposed me to her feminine sexuality for all of the most formative years of my life & then some?!

The point Mike my brother is that I've finally in the last few weeks started opening up about something I'd barely touched on with anybody before, and it's making me realize more than ever (as if we needed more, right?!) why I'm so sexually hung-up. And ashamed.

It's not a matter of whether being gay is right or wrong, but whether it was right or wrong for me
For me it was wrong becuz I was not, obviously.

What I'm ashamed of is the struggles I had with it
and that sometimes becuz of my somewhat feminine characteristics (these were all I ever saw) people
thot I was if not gay than at least somewhat effeminate & certainly not much of a boy/man. And I'm ashamed of being perceived as a mama's boy & a motherf*ck&r! \:o

Mike there is a beautiful woman who's been in my store window for over 23 years. I want so much to be intimate with her. But my mother is sitting beside me saying you can't do that I'm the only woman who can ever have you. My father sits there silently, out there somewhere, his silent message is "you're not man enuf!"

I've recently shared some of this with a survivor friend when he visited, and also via email. Talked about it a little with my wife. My T & I, we really need to get into this, tomorrow.

Dammit I have nothing to be ashamed of! This is about what my mother & others did & tried to do to me as a helpless child.

And dammit brother Mike you have nothing to be ashamed of either, tho I know the feelings are hard to just shuck off. This is about what your older sister, and later your parents, did to you, as a helpless child.

My friend I'm glad you're getting this out with your T. Thanks for getting it out here too. Hope it helps you cause it's sure helping me.

BTW you're new avatar icon is cool, as was the old one. I notice lots of people getting & changing those lately. A trend is in the air I guess.

Take care Mike my brother

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#12861 - 04/30/03 08:14 AM Re: The shame that I harbor...
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
Shame and guilt are two things that drive many problems in life. In fact, the texts therapists are taught from outline them that way. I can certainly relate, because shame and guilt drove me for years.

After I was molested, we moved to a new home where I made friends with a neighbor girl. After we got close enough, I showed her the games I had played with my abuser. Donít get me wrong, I knew I shouldnít be doing these sexual things, but I knew they felt good, so I rationalized that it was okay to show her. For a month or so we played house, including undressing and lying together. We didnít know enough to actually have intercourse, but did oral and the like. It ended when my mom caught us. Like your case, there was actually very little said, and I think that made me feel worse. I remember being at our neighborís. My brother and the neighborís son were in the back playing, and I was standing in the hallway. I remember overhearing as my mom told our neighbor about it. Iíll never forget the look of absolute horror on her face, and I certainly wonít forget how ashamed of myself I was.

Funny how sex and shame got so mixed up for me along the way. Cross-dressing seems almost mild compared to things I got into. In fact that was one thing I never felt particularly bad about. There was a brief period between partners where I was thrill seeking. I remember going off into the woods near our home to strip and streak, when I came across a rubbish heap and a bag of womenís clothes. I couldnít resist putting them on, and it was a big rush. I never go caught, and was never real proud of doing it, but I did.

A few here know how much worse it got, but I am not comfortable talking about it all here. Letís just say, I know shame, and applaud you for sharing it. I felt it important to let you know that you arenít alone. We have all done things we are ashamed of.

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#12862 - 04/30/03 10:47 AM Re: The shame that I harbor...
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Gosh, I don't know how to express my sense of relief for all of your wonderful reponses. My heart was pounding a little as I was opening the thread. But I feel pretty good right now. Thank you all so, so, so much.

I must run to work right now but I'll continue my thoughts later today.
Thanks again,
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#12863 - 04/30/03 12:01 PM Re: The shame that I harbor...
randy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa
Hiya Sleepy,
You may have misread your parents response's too your sisters articles. Your Dad may have been thinking that his son was hell of a stud for bagging a young lady. Your parents might not have realized what the intent of the panties was. Many hetrosexual "normal" boys have a thing for girls panties. For example college boys pull the old pantie raids. It is because girls underware is intended to be more senual than mens.
Their lack of verbal response to you as to what they thought is the real negligence here.
You were allowed to internalize the whole deal,
and children rarely read adults emotions well.
Silence is a real killer to a young mind that has already been scarred.


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#12864 - 04/30/03 05:08 PM Re: The shame that I harbor...
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
I was sexually abused by my mother. She wore me down to the point that I learned to enjoy having sex with her. That all happened when I was 4-6 years old.
Roy tragically I relate. My mother, sometimes with others joining in, incested me from ages 2 (or less) till 11. She was virtually always sexual with me, looking, touching, going around the apartment nude. I got to liking it & hated myself all the more for it. Till I just buried what I couldn't bear deep down inside myself.

Quote:
When I was 9 years old I got caught looking at Playboy magazines. I was so aroused at those pictures. I couldn't get enough of looking at them. My brother told on me in front of the whole family. My mother's response did me in. She made me feel so guilty and ashamed. It was the tone in her voice and the look in her eyes.
Roy I was sex addicted by the time I was 9 or 10; I'd already had consensual sex with one girl my age, and would go into the backs of bookstores & masturbate to porn mags.

But my first porn mag was a photo album of my mother. The narcisstic bitch had to be first in everything, especially me.[img]http://jm.g.free.fr/smileys/angryfire.gif
[/img] She encouraged it.

Quote:
I felt that if I ever wanted to be forgiven of God for what I had done that I could never, ever have a sexual thought about women. From that time on I felt no sexual feelings towards women and began to be attracted to men. It all came from my mother.
Damn, Roy. \:\(

Sometimes it seemed all I could have was sexual thots about women. Thanks mother. I still can barely be intimate in any way with anyone, even with my wonderful wife.

Roy, may God help us overcome the guilt & shame that is not ours but our mothers'.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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