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#125464 - 02/19/06 01:08 AM Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
I came across a laundry list of suggestions at the following address:

http://www.coping.org/growth/accept.htm#What

They are not the gentlest suggestions but ones that I personally can relate to.

Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125465 - 02/20/06 03:07 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Hi Andrew,

I have frequently visited that site. I find a lot that is very helpful to me there.

I'm glad you brought it to the Discussion Board.

Yes, it is difficult to accept personal responsibility.

But if you consider how difficult our lives can become when using other, less effective coping mechanisms - perhaps accepting personal responsibility is not that difficult after all.

The 20 plus years I spent as an active alcoholic for example, were no picnic. The desperate acting out sexually that characterized all my adult relationships often put me in personal danger and sometimes left me injured, both emotionally and physically.

So viewed in the light of what I have already been through, getting my feelings slightly hurt by the suggestion that perhaps I am responsible for my own happiness, instead of continuing to blame my present on my past, is not that great a chance to take.

Like I said, I'm glad you brought this here.
Unfortunately I've noticed it pisses a lot of guys here off to suggest ideas such as the ones contained on the site you link to.

As I have said before, suffering is most definitely addictive. And kicking the habit can be painful for a while, but it sure as hell beats the alternative.

I wonder if we could get this guy or someone from his organization to lead a workshop or speak at the MS conference?

***As always, this statement only represents my personal feelings at this moment in time and in no way should be taken as a reflection on the attitudes or viewpoints of the MaleSurvivor BoD or Mod/Admin staff. But of course, you already knew that.***

Regards,

Danny

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#125466 - 02/20/06 03:15 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
lots of it makes sense ,but how can i be responsible for my past ,?my future yes,but my past ? i'm not reponsible for what he did to me. or the ways i have to live to deal with it . am i?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#125467 - 02/20/06 03:41 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Your post illustrates the problem with ideas and judgments like those on the "coping" website.

I agree with Andrew and Danny that there is a lot that is of value there (I only read the section on accepting responsibility), but mainly what I learn from that section is that issues specifically concerning the sexual abuse of children and its consequences are not well integrated into the thinking concerning other areas - such as alcoholism, drug abuse and addiction, and so on.

So no, Adam, you are in no way responsible for what was done to you as a child. The "coping" site really doesn't have this topic in mind.

Danny, I refer here to your feeling that:

Quote:
Unfortunately I've noticed it pisses a lot of guys here off to suggest ideas such as the ones contained on the site you link to.
The contents of that section don't piss me off; I just think that some parts are wrong, irrelevant and damaging to recovery where CSA is concerned. Adam's post is a clear example of the kind of confusion that can arise, especially where a new or young survivor is concerned.

That said, I don't think it's unfortunate at all that a survivor should get short-tempered at some of the contents of that section in so far as they might be deemed relevant to recovery from CSA. Unless he sees that this material simply does not have CSA in mind in any way whatsoever, he may read it, as Adam does, as implying that a kid is to blame for his own abuse. That conclusion would be false of course, but that's exactly the point. There is too much leeway for confusion.

Just my thoughts.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#125468 - 02/20/06 04:56 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Adam, are you talking about the part where it says to stop rationalizing why others are responsible for what has happened to you?

To me, the important word in there is "rationalize."
In this context, rationalize means when you find reasons which are not true, but are more satisfying to you than the real reasons.

I read that statement as a challenge-- it is challenging me to be really objective and honest about whether or not I am responsible for something that has happened to me. It doesn't mean that I am responsible for everything that has happened to me.

For example, if I'm driving a car and the person behind me doesn't slow down at the intersection and rear-ends me, I'm not responsible. But let's say that the cops get there, and it comes out that I don't have a driver's license, and I get in trouble.

Even though it's not my fault the cops showed up, even if I have lots of reasons for WHY I was driving without a license (I had to get to work) or reasons why I don't have a license (My road test was cancelled, no one ever helped me learn to drive)-- it's up to me to accept responsibility for the illegal thing that I did-- and to accept that I have the power to make other choices (take the bus, get a driver's license).

I know that is a simple example. It can be more challenging to sort out our personal responsibility in situations where there's some emotional history, but it's possible. Does that make sense?


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#125469 - 02/21/06 01:18 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Interesting discussion.

A couple of points. First of all, as Andrew stated in his original post: these are simply suggestions.

If the way in which you choose to live with what was done to you in the past is working well for you, then by all means continue making those choices.

If, however, you are having some heavy going in making your way through life, then you might seriously consider looking at the ideas offered with an open mind and without 'the male survivor nailed to the cross' mentality.

For me, it was the realization that "No, I am not responsible for what happened to me in the past." But that I am responsible for taking that which was done to me and using it as my personal crown of thorns whenever I felt the need to make myself suffer, which as it turns out, was quite often.

It was not my fault that my father abandoned my family. But every time I needed to feel sorry for myself in order to justify some bad behavior on my part, you better believe I dragged my dear old dad out of his grave and used his abandonment of me as my 'rationalization', as SAR puts it so well.

For what I do today with what happened to me yesterday I am responsible.

To my mind, the greatest offense for me is act as if there is no solution, there is no hope, there is no way out. Because today I know better than that.

It may well be, as it is some days, that I do not care to work hard enough to get in touch with the solution, or perhaps that I simply need to spend some more time getting sick and tired of living with the problem. But nevertheless, that does not mean that the solution is not possible. It is just not possible or desirable for me today.

As a good friend of mine pointed out to me once,

"Lots of people want to FEEL better, many fewer are willing to do the work necessary to GET better."

I do not see any caveats in the material presented excusing victims of abuse, sexual or otherwise, male or otherwise, from the necessity of assuming personal responsibility.

It is not the saying of it that makes it so, no more than Newtons enunciation of the force of gravity is what makes me bump my ass when I slip on a tulip bulb. It is simply stating what many if not most men of thought take for granted.

Once aware of it, each of us certainly has a choice as to whether or not we wish to try to understand and to live in accordance with this axiom of human behavior or the natural law of gravity on Earth for that matter.

It is easy to see the bad results from acting in contravention of the law of gravity. It is somewhat trickier to see the bad results that come from the acting in disregard for our own personal responsibility, mainly because one of the ways we do that is to blame everything on everyone else.

I hope that I do not judge others on this subject. God knows I spent many, many years evading my responsibility. I would plead that I simply did not know how to do it and was trapped like so many of us in the web of isolation and shame.

Now that I am out of that web of shame, I feel it is incumbent on me to let others know that there is a way out, that there is hope, that it is possible for a man to recover from the effects of sexual abuse.

And yes, it has time and again pissed people off to hear that said. It is my feeling that we all have the right to feel as we like. We all have the right to be wrong. It is only our lives that we are wasting, though many times those around us suffer too.

I would suggest reading through at least the next section on the site mentioned above. The section that discusses the characteristics of those who refuse to consider assuming personal responsibility.

See if those sound familiar. See if those sound like a place to which we should aspire.

Finally, I think that assuming personal responsibility (and by doing so, rejecting responsibility that is not ours) is most likely the first and most important step in recovering from the effects of sexual abuse.

After all, haven't we all felt how desperately important it was to hear the words "The abuse was not your fault; you are not responsible for being sexually abused."? That, to me, is the clearing of the decks of the false responsibility that I took on myself.

I had to clear out that false responsibility and put it where it belonged, with the abuser, so that I could have room in my life to assume what was my proper responsibility.

Until I let go of feeling, quite wrongly, responsible for the sexual abuse that was practiced upon me, and the attendant shame and guilt that accompanied it, I was completely and utterly incapable of assuming personal responsibility for my own life. And I continued to suffer mightily for it.

I cannot afford to think that being a survivor of sexual abuse puts me on some different plane than other human beings who suffer and who transcend. That to me is nothing more than another form of the isolation that kept me feeling like I was the only one for so long.

Instead of focusing on what was done to me, which I cannot change, as Adam so correctly points out, today I try instead to focus on that which I can change, which is myself and my attitudes and outlooks on life.

That to me is the essence of assuming personal responsibility.

I like this topic, can you tell?

***Usual disclaimer about this being my own personal pov etc.***

Thanks all,

Danny

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#125471 - 02/22/06 10:35 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
male survivor nailed to the cross mentality? sorry but that one pisses me off . i have no personal responsibility for what happened to me and while iunderstand that things work acording to the laws of nature like gravity ,i am now 21 years old since my abuse at age 11 i have spent the last ten years in foster care and juvenile detention ,so you know what i been too busy just staying alive to take personal responsibility for my life . dude i just fell off that cross ok ? and i surely never wanted to be on it to begin with ,i feel that by comming here i am starting to take responsibility .but i refuse to even acknowledge that i had any responsibility for my abuse bevause i didnt.but i guess i could say hey adam you know if you had not been a blonde haired blue eyed 11 year old ,who was totaly innocent ,this wouldnt have happened to me ,if i hadn't been such an inviting target ,he would have passed me by ,is that the kind of responsibility i should assume ? that somehow it was my fault?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#125472 - 02/23/06 03:23 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Danny,

I have no real problem with the content of your last post on this thread. I can agree with or at least see you point in pretty much everything there.

Just one thing...

Could you just maybe be a little less arrogant about it?

I think Will states if very well
Quote:
Many that are early in this process are just experiencing new feelings and memories that are scary and new. Many of us are in a crisis because this stuff is so new. We are not able to rationally examine the reality of the situation. That doesn't make us weak or in denial of our personal responsibility...it makes us guys who are taking the first steps toward tasking personal responsibility. Frankly, I think people on this site are taking much more personal responsibility that most of the general population because they are taking real steps to improve themselves.
Time to come out of your tower and associate with us mortals.

I make it my aim in life to try to give everyone a little slack, and keep my mouth shut especially where it comes to being critical of another in public, but somebody needs to say something here.

My $20.00 worth. Now I'm broke!

My apologies to you all.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#125473 - 02/23/06 04:24 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Guys,

If you read the posts on this web site, they are generally loving, supportive and very allowing of all types of venting, complaining, worrying, crying and lamenting the horrible effects of sexual abuse.

I would venture to say that approximately 90 percent of the posts about sexual abuse fall into that category. The responses to those posts are almost universally supportive.

It is only right that guys who have been silent for so long should be given the opportunity to vent their long hidden emotions. I am all for that. It was important to me and still is.

What I almost never see here in our posts is any type of encouragement to move beyond the pain and blame into the next stages of recovery where we learn to focus our energy and time on ourselves and slowly leave the obsession with the perpetratror behind.

It is important to me that there also be room here for that type of encouragement. That it be said out loud that acknowledging our abuse and voicing our hatred of our abusers is only the BEGINNING of the journey to recovery.

It is the beginning of a process and not the end result that we seek when we attempt to recover from the effects of sexual abuse.

Attempts like this thread to bring the attention of survivors to the really tough work that must be done, such as assuming personal responsibility for our own lives, are always met with a lot of outrage.

Many here are unwilling to tolerate discussions about the role that we as survivors must play in our own recoveries. Sure we were not responsible for our abuse. That much is definitely agreed on by all.

But after establishing that fact, it then was necessary for me to move beyond it and begin the very hard work on myself.

You say that I speak with arrogance. Well, I am a survivor too and if you wish to criticize me for the way that I speak I cannot stop you from doing that.

But I would ask you to consider that I too have suffered greatly for many, many years and still do from the effects of being sexually abused.

I am not 'recovered'. I am simply at a point on the path. And I am trying to tell you about the point that I am experiencing.

It is a point where I am no longer obsessed by thoughts of my abuse nor my abuser. Today I spend most of my energy taking good care of myself and learning new ways to over ride the failed coping mechanisms that I employed in the past.

My life is not perfect. I declared bankruptcy and had a heart attack last year. Yesterday I went in for a biopsy on my thyroid gland and watched the doctor stick many very sharp needles into my throat. I am waiting for the results.

Besides being abused as a teenager, I went on to be raped a couple of times as an adult. It became important for me to look at what part I played in those situations. Not to see that I am responsible - but I was there after all - and how did I react, what did I do with what happened to me?

I needed to learn that stuff, not to judge or condemn myself - but as a way of understanding what dynamics were operating in my psyche that might have led me to be in such dangerous situations. As a young man, I desperately craved attention and love. The perp gave me what I thought was love and so I got hooked into his trap.

That does not mean that I am responsible for what he did. It does mean that I have a huge need for male attention and love and that I'd better find a way to take care of that need or risk finding myself in an abusive situation.

I'm sorry that you find my posts arrogant - maybe that comes from being insecure. I was a high school drop out and always felt like a failure.

To me, it's like I see guys drowning and I'm trying to throw them a life preserver - I'm yelling at them to get their attention, but they think I'm just being a jerk and so won't listen to what I say. What I'm saying is here- take this- it saved my life and it can help save yours.

I was pissed off at the people who helped me put my problems in their true perspective. I didn't want to focus on myself, because it seemed to me that meant I had done something wrong.

I was like the guy in the dark room, stumbling around and hurting myself bumping into the furniture. People kept telling me to turn on the light switch, but I was so busy being angry that I heard them calling me a son of a bitch...When I finally heard what they were saying about the light switch, I questioned the source of the electricity, where did it come from, how does it work....it turns out I did not need to know any of that stuff in order to gain the benefit of the light. I simply had to turn the switch. Stop being angry long enough to listen and follow the suggestions that were given me and turn on the damn lights.

You know, when you go into a dark room, we don't have to get a shovel and shovel all of the darkness out of the room, do we? No, we simply have to light a match and the darkness goes away.

So I would ask you to look beyond my arrogance and listen to the message I am trying to transmit.

It is possible to recover from the effects of sexual abuse. You do not have to live in pain and misery for the rest of your life.

When we learn to put our problems in their true perspective, we find that they lose their power to dominate our thoughts and our lives.

Hey, I'm just a survivor trying to express myself like you are. So give me a break, will you?

Thanks for reading all this,

Regards,

Danny

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#125474 - 02/23/06 05:46 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
danny sorry if i got upset it is my own innerr feelings that upset me not what you are saying ok? i believe you are tyring to help me and i should be gratefull for that ,but i think that we all have to do what you describe but we are all in different stages of healing ,and some of us may still need to hear the support and may still be on the cross but i think that as soon as i became an adult i have tried to do what you say its just that you know at what age do we become responsible for our lives .dont think it can be done by a child . as much of a child life is beyond his control . thanks for your post .adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#125475 - 02/23/06 07:21 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Danny,

Quote:
What I almost never see here in our posts is any type of encouragement to move beyond the pain and blame into the next stages of recovery where we learn to focus our energy and time on ourselves and slowly leave the obsession with the perpetratror behind.
I am so totally in agreement with you on this.
I wish I could reach through the screen and give you a hug.

Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

Top
#125476 - 02/23/06 11:52 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Steven Heath Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 81
Loc: New York City
Andrew,

The two hardest things I have learned to accept:

1. It is not my fault or make me any less of a person if someone rejects me after they find out that I am gay.

2. At this stage in my life, I am totally responsible for my happiness. I have the power to be happy if I learn to leave the past where it belongs on my life's timeline. My present and future are completely created by me. I actually can choose to move forward and heal.

It took me a long time to step out of the quicksand. It took me a long time to see that once the abuse was over, that I could actually feel somewhat at peace with myself.

This is not to say at all that time heals all wounds. On the contrary.....we heal our wounds....either on our own, or with the help of others.

But wounds can heal....and we can actually feel the warmth of the sun when it shines on our faces without always feeling the chill of our abuse.

I ramble on too much.

Thanks,

Steve


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#125477 - 02/24/06 12:05 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Steven Heath Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 81
Loc: New York City
Just a post sript to my previous posting.

It is possible that it has no connection to the stream of thoughts here.

But it caused me to think and express.

If it is a total disconnect, please forgive me...some of my friends find it an endearing quality of mine....at least that is what they tell me.

Thanks again,

Steve


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#125478 - 02/24/06 02:43 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Danny,

I read through your last post several times and was moved by it. You spoke eloquently, passionately, and inoffensifely about what is important to you. I can agree with a large percentage of what you said, and respect you, as well as the views you expressed.

I cannot say the same for your first couple of posts on this thread. I've already expressed my opinion regarding them and will not enlarge on that again except to say that if I had happened on those posts as a newcomer to this site, they probably would have been the last ones I read. This place would have appeared to be unsafe to me, and I probably would not have come back.

I would only say that if you express your viewpoint about what is important to you with the same kind of passion and kindness with which you expressed yourself in this last post, people will respond positively.

In another place you said
Quote:
So I would ask you to look beyond my arrogance and listen to the message I am trying to transmit.
Which is where I was at, and would have let it go, except for one thing. That is the issue of the unsuspecting guy who comes here and is really hurting. If the first thing he encounters is one of the above posts, he more than likely will NOT return.

You ask us to overlook the arrogance, and I can and do. This, however, is not and should not be a one sided thing. You have a responsibility also to attempt to temper the way you come across and make it user friendly. It is possible to get your point across without offending the people you are trying to talk to right out of the starting gate.

I understand exactly where you are at. My wife tells me that I, too, can be arrogant and people are put off by me and the way I say things. Can anyone say "you spot it, you got it?"

Bottom line in what I am trying to say is lets do what we can at all times to try and make this a place of safety for the guys who come here seeking help.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#125479 - 02/25/06 03:48 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Danny,

As this thread has shifted into a discussion of just exactly what kind of recovery survivors should take personal responsibility for, I thought I would just comment on a few points that have arisen.

Quote:
If, however, you are having some heavy going in making your way through life, then you might seriously consider looking at the ideas offered with an open mind and without 'the male survivor nailed to the cross' mentality.
Although I know what you mean, the statement as it stands is harmful in my opinion. What it basically says is that if you are having some heavy going, that's your own fault: you are too closed-minded and you are too busy feeling sorry for yourself. That isn't what guys need to hear on the DB. Practically none of us know the entire cases of any of the others, and that sort of judgment is one that the survivor's own T should make.

The "survivor nailed to his cross" metaphor is inappropriate, and in fact I find it cruel. Guys coming here have a right to expect better than that.

Quote:
Lots of people want to FEEL better, many fewer are willing to do the work necessary to GET better.
I guess we see the world of survivors differently. I come here and I am proud of the hard work I see my brothers doing every day. I don't recall ever talking to anyone here - whether on the DB, in PM, or in chat - who thinks that he will feel better without doing the work.

The problem is that so many survivors - especially new guys - have such devastating doubts about themselves and such issues with self-esteem that they are not convinced that they CAN do the work. They need to be helped and encouraged just to get started - however long it takes.

Quote:
What I almost never see here in our posts is any type of encouragement to move beyond the pain and blame into the next stages of recovery where we learn to focus our energy and time on ourselves and slowly leave the obsession with the perpetratror behind.
Again, we see things differently. I don't think there is any lack of encouragement here for survivors to keep at their recovery and move forward. Perhaps where we part company is our view on how we can encourage each other. Frankly speaking, if I were a new survivor I would have been profoundly discouraged by a lot of what you say on this thread - but okay, perhaps that's just me. I think we encourage each other through support, validation, discussing our rough spots and problems, and offering suggestions in a non-judgmental way. Once we see for ourselves that many of our old fears and negative feelings are false and can no longer harm us, THEN we will feel ready to step forward and can do that, again with encouragement from others.

If a survivor is stuck and spinning his wheels, that is something for his T to discover and help with. Here, on the other hand, he needs to see that he has to find his own pace and that's okay. It just isn't right to call guys on the carpet for not meeting someone else's expectations and time line.

Finally, I don't think anyone disrespects you or is having a go at you personally. They are just reacting to opinions that you express, and I myself can see the point of their misgivings.

Just some further thoughts.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#125480 - 02/25/06 06:34 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Larry,
No surprise .... I see Danny's comments a little differently. I see them as thought provoking, a little kick-ass and dead bang on for some people. Yes, I agree, for some of the guys it may be a little bit too much pressure; but you know what? There are lots and lots of warm and supportive comments coming from lots of directions in this and other forums. I would hope that survivors new to MS, and otherwise, would avail themselves of the messages and communications from all the membership. There are so many good things being said. We need to take what is relevent to us, useful to us ... and discard the rest for the time being. Maybe what is discarded now may be useful some time down the road ... and then again, maybe not.
I could be wrong, but I've always found for myself that being challenged and stretched, made to feel vaguely uncomfortable is usually the precursor to personal growth and development. Change is never comfortable, and in fact people almost never change until not changing becomes more uncomfortable than changing. Just my 10 cents worth anyway. You're all great guys.
Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125481 - 02/25/06 06:44 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Andrew,

Yep, no surprise. ;\) I'm glad you replied; we need to hear all sides when important and possibly contentious issues are raised.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#125482 - 02/25/06 07:01 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Larry,
One of the things I totally love about you is your ability to see the many facets of an issue.
I truly believe our greatest strength is our diversity, that there is a message for everyone.
Thanks to John, Steve, Danny, yourself and all the guys here on this thread and others. Our collective strength, energy and desire to heal makes absolutely everything and anything possible. God bless you all. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125483 - 02/25/06 03:55 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Thanks Andrew, but please bear in mind that I feed off the vibes I get from everyone else here. It's the community aspect of things that matters.

That community consists of individuals with different experiences, so I think we must always expect that occasions will arise where we disagree, or where things misfire. What's crucial is that we not see these differences as personal attacks or slights.

Our ability to continue to communicate and share with such powerful results is our personal and collective victory - each and every day my friend.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#125484 - 02/25/06 06:11 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Quote:
Our ability to continue to communicate and share with such powerful results is our personal and collective victory - each and every day my friend.
I completely agree Larry.

Quote:
What's crucial is that we not see these differences as personal attacks or slights.

I agree with this also, but also think that we each have a responsibility to be sure our 'rebuttals' (differing opinions) are not personalized in nature. And yes, I know that is sometimes difficult because often people take personal ownership of their opinion and it is difficult to separate the two.

Having said all that ... this thread is getting way off base and we need to bring it back to its purpose. Take care. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125485 - 02/25/06 06:18 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
roadrunner Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Andrew,

Quote:
there is no courage without anxiety
:)

Got to run bro. Am off to the airport in 45 minutes.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#125486 - 02/25/06 08:51 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
this post has really made me stop and look at myself and my life ,how i have reacted to different things at different times ,so i kinda stared looking at the major events in my life ,and tried to see if ,i did have any personal responsibility for them .i really looked at them ,with an unbiased eye ,without the survivor on the cross mentality .so what i ended up doing is seeing how each event was connected to something earlier in my life ,it was like looking at my life and moving from the present all the way back to the point where my life changed for the first time .and in most of them if i rationalize" each experience i can see decisions that i made that caused more problems for me later.my question is where is the benifit, the magical healing that comes from realising that i am responsible for my life? for everything that happened i can rationaly accept responsibility .it seems your ideas are assuming that the answer will always be that you are not to blame ,but what if your soul searching leads you to a different place ,the dark place of guilt and shame that we are all trying to dig out of .i think that even if what your hearing is just sugery sweet ,feel good advice ,which seems to be the perception of support here ,it is better than facing the fact that if i try hard enough i can find a way to blame myself for every bad thing in my life .ok i accept that i'm to blame ,now what?was i not better off believing everyone who keeps telling me ,hey its not your fault .i think this is what this post tried to get across that we must stop feeling sorry for ourselves and move on take responsibility ,keep it real ,well this is real but i dont find it very healing . shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#125487 - 02/25/06 11:31 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I read the list of "Personal responsibilities" and thought that they are great goals, but that they were completely alien to my old life.
And as such I didn't think that they would have had a place in my early days of therapy and healing.

I think that a few years back I would have barely understood them and actually reacted against them.
How could I possibly be expected to take responibility for things that I was just learning were out of my control?
I wasn't 'personally responsible' for my acting out, but that perception of my 'responsibility' was something that was evolving as I learned new things about myself in therapy. A few years ago I did believe that acting out was my responsibility, that's what f****d me up and led me to seeking help and therapy.
That's where my perception of my responsibility began to change and I saw that acting out was a result of someone elses LACK of responsibility.

But now I accept my present and future responsibilities and can see the value of that list.
Now I have the tools and knowledge to make choices based upon reasoned thinking, so I can be responsible for my thoughts and actions. I might not always be right, but I can make choices based on my current thinking rather than my old thinking which was so influenced by my abuse.

Danny, how I agree with this comment -

Quote:
Many here are unwilling to tolerate discussions about the role that we as survivors must play in our own recoveries. Sure we were not responsible for our abuse. That much is definitely agreed on by all.

But after establishing that fact, it then was necessary for me to move beyond it and begin the very hard work on myself.
I also see this, not only here at MS but at most if not all the other survivors sites.
I firmly believe that there is a place for butt kicking some survivors, not all, and it's something that has to be done with some care.
But guys like myself get to a stage where someone else telling me to get my arse in gear and take responsibility for my actions is what's needed.

But it takes a lot of trust and respect, which is difficult online. I think that I could do it with many guys here, mainly 'old timers' like yourself that I feel I know well enough to administer a sharp kick to the butt if you were slipping outta line. And I'm certain that I could, and do, take it in return.
I email a few survivors frequently, and that's what we do with each other, we're forcefull and blunt, sometimes to the extent of rudeness I guess. But it works, if we do cross the line we have the balls to admit it and apologise.

Sometimes we need a wake up call to even see where our personal responsibilities lie.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#125488 - 02/26/06 01:49 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Thanks, Andrew, for bringing us back to the original topic.

How many times have I noted that when I focus on the problem, the problem grows larger; when I focus on the solution, the solution grows bigger?

And yet, I am a slow learner and a quick forgetter, so that's why reminders are always good for me.

A few suggestions from the coping website Andrew cited in his original post. These are suggested solutions that have worked for me.

They are possible solutions in response to the many problems I have which stem from the sexual abuse, for which I am NOT responsible.

Here are some things that have helped me as I try to outgrow some of the life difficulties I have experienced.

Quote:
What behavior traits need to be developed in order to accept personal responsibility?

In order to accept personal responsibility you need to develop the ability to:

Seek out and to accept help for yourself.

Be open to new ideas or concepts about life and the human condition.

Refute irrational beliefs and overcome fears.

Affirm yourself positively.

Recognize that you are the sole determinant of the choices you make.

Recognize that you choose your responses to the people, actions, and events in your life.

Let go of anger, fear, blame, mistrust, and insecurity.

Take risks and to become vulnerable to change and growth in your life.

Take off the masks of behavior characteristics behind which you hide low self-esteem.

Reorganize your priorities and goals.

Realize that you are the party in charge of the direction your life takes.
[/QUOTE]
(Emphasis added)

Hope these help as they have helped me.

Best wishes for quick healing for us all,

Regards,

Danny

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#125489 - 02/26/06 06:08 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
OK Guys,

The Title of this thread is "Taking Personal Responsibility".

My wife and I attend a "Relationships Group" on Saturday mornings. Today the facilitator opened up the discussion with a story from his own life this past week that was so similar to this thread and the things that have been happing here that it scared the **** outa me for a bit.

One of the things he said is that if we are triggered by something like this to the point that we have trouble letting it go, then perhaps our spitituality and our recovery are not running as deep as our pain.

The discussion centered on these issues today and at the close the facilitator read a quote from a famous American that hit me square between the eyes.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in the moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." Martin Luther King Jr.

So - - to take personal responsibility...

Although I still hold a strong opinion which is diverse from that of Danny, I must here admit that the way I handled the expression of that opinion was quite probably out of line, and for that I offer my apology to Danny, and everyone else on the board who read it.

I do not find this difficult to do. In fact, quite the opposite. I find it very liberating and I do it with a smile.

I do believe, as has been said here already, that our strength lies in our ability to have these conversations, even confrontations, to dissagree, and be able to move beyond it with honesty and better understanding of what the real issues are that created the tension in the first place.

I appreciate those of you who have taken the time to provide me with feedback on my part in this little episode, regardless of which viewpoint you were speaking from. I count you as my friends, and value you as such as well as for just being you.

I love you all,

John

For the record---My objection raised above was not to the content of the posts. The things said were for the most part spot on. My objection was to the way in which one or two of them were presented. I guess I expected better, but then I have to understand that no one is perfect, least of all me, and I do indeed need to allow leeway for my brothers to err. Again, my sincere apologies to Danny for my sharp comments.

[edited for spelling]

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#125490 - 02/26/06 07:38 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i'm sorry if my part in this thread in any way caused hard feelings ,or made someone feel bad .but no one has answered what i think is the real question here ,what do you do when you find out that you are responsible? what if it really is your fault . what if the suggestions in the article make you realize that you are to blame ?i mean all these things work if your totaly innocent ,but what if your not ,what if you did things that made your life harder ,what if i really am to blame? do they tell you how to deal with that?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#125491 - 02/26/06 08:23 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Shadowkid,
You are NEVER EVER to blame for having been sexually abused. Please understand that. ABSOLUTELY NEVER. The personal responsibility part only comes at some point down the road, into recovery, when a survivor asks himself "fine, it happened, this is where I am today, where do I go from here, and what do I need to do to get better? In other words, start looking inwards for some answers. Moving on doesn't mean forgetting or removing the blame for the assault that was perpetrated on you. That doesn't change. The perpetrator is/was and still is the bad guy. Moving on and taking responsibility for the rest of your life means just that. Your life is yours, your future is yours, you are moving on, to hell with the f...... perp, you are going to make positive choices for yourself. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125492 - 02/26/06 10:23 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
Adam,

Yes, it does tell you. It's right here.
Quote:
Letting go of blame and anger toward those in your past who did the best they could, given the limitations of their knowledge, background, and awareness.
The FIRST one, the most IMPORTANT one in your past that you have to let go of anger and blame towards is YOU.

You are not responsible for what ANYONE did to you or didn't do for you. Those were their choices; their responsibility. You are not responsible for how you acted and reacted when you were a hurt, damaged, scared child. No child is or could be.

Your feelings and emotions may still be influenced by everything that came before, but how you ACT NOW is your choice and your responsibility. Especially since you have now acknowledged the harm and damage done to you.

So yes, you acted badly, wrongly, when you beat that man in the parking lot. And yes, you made a terrible choice when you used hard drugs a couple of months ago. Those were your choices and they are your responsibility.

I would say you aren't responsible for using those drugs when you were a teen, or the fighting and violence you may have committed back then, but YOU, and only YOU are responsible now.

You know that violence and drug use are bad choices. You know what led you to them. If you resort to them now, it is YOUR choice and YOUR responsibilty. The consequences are also YOURS, no matter what happened to you years ago, no matter anything else.

You can sit down right now and accept that what you did before NOW was the best you could do THEN. You can forgive yourself for what you did then. You SHOULD forgive yourself for what you did back then because of "the limits of your knowledge, background, and awareness" back then.

But don't for one minute think that if you F*ck up big time again, all you will need to do is forgive yourself again. Those days are over. You have knowledge and awareness NOW. What you do NOW, having this knowledge and awareness is YOUR choice. This is what accepting responsibility is about.

You also need to look over the next item on that list.
Quote:
Working out anger, hostility, pessimism, and depression over past hurts, pains, abuse, mistreatment, and misdirection.
You can't change what happened to you. You can't change what you felt back then or how you reacted back then. None of us can.

You might think that we can't change how we feel now about the past, but the fact is that we can. It is one of the two things we can change.

We can change how we feel now, and we can change how we act now. Every one of us is responsible for what we do now. Changing how we feel is harder, but it is necessary, and it can happen.

I don't mean to make any of this sound easy. It isn't. It's damn hard but WE have to do it. It is OUR OWN responsibility to make ourselves recover. There is no pill, no support forum, no book, no therapist, no prayer, no loving partner, friend, or family member that will pour healing into us.

We can certainly "get" healing or understanding or support from any one of these sources, but always, ALWAYS, it is ourselves, taking the responsibilty for ourselves, that DOES the work, that GETS the healing.

Recovery is not given to us. We take it. We make it. We are responsible for healing just as we are responsible for everything else we do or don't do.

That is the message from that web site. And I believe that it is entirely appropriate for survivors of any trauma or events that damage them or derail their lives in any way.

Hell, I think it is entirely appropriate for everyone, not just Survivors. If more people took responsibility for themselves and their actions, we'd all be better off and there would be far fewer Survivors of any type.

Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#125493 - 02/26/06 10:38 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
andrew thanks for responding this is a great thread ,even if it angered some ,it personaly has not upset me. but !i think what has happened here is an example of how even good ideas can turn out wrong taking responsibility for my life is very important ,necessary to healing . but iwould bet that if many of us use rational thinking about our lives we can come up with things we did or didnt do that make us responsible,even at 8 years old i made a choice to do something that started the whole chain of abuse ,and i chose to deal with my abuse by closing myself off and acting out missing any chance i might have had to have a normal childhood ,so due to my actions i ended up in foster care and detention centers or on the street,this is so confusing ,if i say it wasnt my fault then i am doing exactly what the original post was about ,but if i say ok i accept the responsibility ,then i'm being told i'm not to blame again ,is any one as confused as i am on this? i do believe that the ideas in the first post on dealing with responsibility are not meant to applied to abuse victims.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#125494 - 02/26/06 11:24 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Adam,
There is absolutely nothing an 8 yo boy could do that would make you responsible for being abused.
Also, don't forget that the 'accepting personal responsibility' message (link) is for adults who are some distance down the road in their recovery, not children. In no way are children responsible for all the choices they make. That's why there are adults there to help, guide and nurture them.

I started this thread and posted the link to encourage discussion and thought. In no way is it an elixir to all that may be wrong in the world or our lives. And as I said in the very beginning, they are not necessarily the gentlest suggestions. Some of them worked for me, and so I am just sharing. I know that at one time in my own life, I was very heavily invested in being a 'victim', and it wasn't until I started looking inwards and building on my strengths that I started having positive outcomes. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125495 - 02/26/06 11:47 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Adam,

Some of the things you are saying really resonate with me. Like you, I made some choices when I was very young and very much influenced by other people's treatment of me, that have changed the course of my life.

I am not talking about the kind of choice that a young child makes, to be in what turns out to be the wrong place at the wrong time, or even the choice that children make all the time, to trust the adults around them. I don't think anyone is asking us to take responsibility for decisions like those-- and in fact, part of what happens when we START taking responsibility for our own actions, is that it becomes easier to let go of the feeling that we are responsible for this stuff that was really out of our hands.

But as a teen I made some choices which got me pregnant. My partner made some choices which contributed to that too.

I can look at the choices I made which led to becoming a young parent, and not blame myself or feel bad about them. But what am I supposed to do-- not take on all the responsibilities of good parenting, because I'm not to blame for the loss of my own childhood? Should I blame my children for it? Should I act in ways that hurt them for it? I wouldn't be any better than the people I DO blame, if I did that.

And when you get right down to it, there were only two of us in the room when my oldest was conceived-- and we both knew what we were doing, even if at the time, we didn't really know why.

My partner and I are totally responsible for the births of our children and we have acted like it from day one. It's not always easy but it's not optional either. And it's not about blame or fault. It's about accepting where you are at, and just doing what's best for you, without getting hung up on WHY you are where you're at. There is plenty of time for the why, too-- but not at the same time.


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#125496 - 02/27/06 12:55 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
MAY TRIGGER this post has helped me a lot so i'm going to ask one more question in the hope that someone can help me believe its not my fault . i understand that accidents happen but in reality people cause accidents .at age 8 i made a decision to push my brother ,as a result he died . how can i not take responsibility for something that my actions caused .also this started a chain of things that were my life ,my mother disappeared into drugs and booze ,my dad who could no longer endure the sight of me abandoned me with a known pedophile , i understand that an 8 year old can not take responsibility ,but does that excuse the 21 year old from the responsibility? as i said digging too deep is a dangerous thing sometimes .we might not like what we find ,andrew i totaly understand that your only intention with this post was to offer help so its cool ok? adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#125497 - 02/27/06 04:06 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Adam,
Pushing your brother is unrelated to an adult taking advantage of you sexually. It would also not be unusual for a pedophile to be opportunistic and take advantage of your unfortunate situation. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125498 - 02/27/06 06:09 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
***triggers***

Dear Adam and all the guys reading,

Your post regarding your brothers death really touched my heart.

I, too, carried the suspicion of my guilt in the death of a loved one and in my mind linked it to the sexual abuse.

I am so grateful that I finally found this place where I have learned that I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SEXUAL ABUSE THAT HAPPENED TO ME.

By first clearing out that horrible misconception with which the abuser left me, I was later on (with a lot of help) to begin to clear up many other very wrong ideas that I had got into my head during the years following the sexual abuse when I was living alone with the secrets of what had happened.

I hope that you won't mind if I share a bit of my story here. It seems to me that it is similar to what you are experiencing and perhaps it may help you. I hope so. I know it helps me to be able to share so openly here what I kept as a shameful secret for so long.

While I was being sexually abused by this 55 year old man (I was 15 when it started), I got the chance to return home to visit my mother, whom I loved very much.

A little background here: I had left home when I was 14 because my mom had remarried and the man she married was abusive to me and threatened to kill me.

I was left basically homeless, broke and with no prospects. That is the condition that the abuser found me in. He used all that to trap me in the sexual abuse.

After almost a year of living far away from my mom with the abuser, I got the chance to return home to see my her. During the trip home, I thought about staying in Texas near her, and never returning to the perpetrator of the sexual abuse again.

Very tragically, my mom was killed in an automobile accident during the week that I was there to visit. It was of course absolutely devestating to me. I loved my mom so much.

And now she was gone and somewhere in my very confused and grieving mind I figured that I was responsible for her death. That I was committing horrible sins with the abuser and that was why my mom was killed. It was my fault.

I cannot tell you how many years of agony I went through with that false sense of responsibility ripping at my guts.

I figured I was responsible for being abused, because I craved the love and attention I could not get at home, and I figured I was responsible for my mom's death because I had left and then come back to see her which caused her to take the road she was killed on.

It was only when, by the grace of God, I was given the insight that I WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ABUSE, that I was finally led to see THAT I WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MY MOTHER'S DEATH.

The accident that killed her was caused by a man who was driving drunk. It was his fault not mine.

I apologize for burdening you with this sadness. It happened to me when I was 16 years old that I lost my mom. And I did not begin to give up those ideas of false responsibility until I was about 36 years old.

I hope no one else would have to suffer that agony for that long. I hope that you especially do not have to suffer that.

When I truly began to let go of the responsibility for the abuse, I was then able to let go of other responsibility that I falsely gave myself, like my mom's death.

THEN, I was able to begin to assume the true responsibility for myself, my life, my choices and my happiness. It is not easy, even today, years after beginning this path.

There is no ON/OFF switch to flip. For me, it seems to be a life long process--a wonderful process, I might add.

But as I have continued to practice I have gotten better at accepting my personal responsibility and at tossing out those false notions that I had for so long.

Now I can truly honor the memory of my mom who I love very deeply without the mistaken sense of shame and guilt that I carried for so long.

I wish you and all of us here the gift of healing. It is possible. I know it is because it is happening for me.

Thanks for reading.

Regards,

Danny

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#125499 - 02/27/06 06:24 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
danny your post took lots of guts thank you ,in my case my jelousy of my dad and my brother caused me to do things to try to prove myself ,and in the process i tried to drive our tractor which i could not do ,my brother tried to jump on and stop it but i wanted so bad to prove i could do it that i pushed him off and he got run over. it was my need to be part of what they had that caused all of this

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#125500 - 03/15/06 07:20 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
I think this is most important. To accept responsibility of what is ours. What happen to us before, we are not responsible of. We are not responsible for action of other person. But what we do now, what we choice now, it is of our doing, our choice. That is what I am responsible for now. Not the child I was. The man I will become.

VN


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#125501 - 03/23/06 05:32 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
BFREE Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 15
Loc: CA
I'm new and I am really enjoying this topic. Of course I've always like controversy. Sometimes in the midst of confrontation we really finally see for the first time what the other guy is trying to say. The passionate opinions expressed here rather than drive me away, make me want to stick it out, it reminds that I'm still a man.

I'm taking time off work to deal with issues that I buried for about 15 years. While I may want to tell my boss I need time off because of abuse issues I probably won't. My job may be in jeopardy at this point and if I lose it I would be responsible for that. It hurts to say that but its the gutshot truth. A stronger person could probably process all this and still go to work, I am not that person yet. So while I was initially a little irritated by the website posting, I felt relieved to know that I am responsible for how I choose to react to something. I am determined to recover if its costs me my job then,"damn the torpedoes full speed ahead."


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#125502 - 03/23/06 11:47 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
I've read what a person who doesn't believe in personal responsibility feel, and it's really about me. "Life is unfair! There is no sense in trying to take control of my life."

My only disagreement with the content of these points is that sometimes you can really make steps that ruin your life and take MUCH time to restore your optimistic view of life. It's time when you can accept your weaknes and accept some of the points mentioned on that site. That doesn't mean that you are a failure. It's a temporary pessimistic attitude. That's the feeling I'm living now with.

Alex

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
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When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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