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#125475 - 02/23/06 07:21 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Danny,

Quote:
What I almost never see here in our posts is any type of encouragement to move beyond the pain and blame into the next stages of recovery where we learn to focus our energy and time on ourselves and slowly leave the obsession with the perpetratror behind.
I am so totally in agreement with you on this.
I wish I could reach through the screen and give you a hug.

Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125476 - 02/23/06 11:52 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Steven Heath Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 81
Loc: New York City
Andrew,

The two hardest things I have learned to accept:

1. It is not my fault or make me any less of a person if someone rejects me after they find out that I am gay.

2. At this stage in my life, I am totally responsible for my happiness. I have the power to be happy if I learn to leave the past where it belongs on my life's timeline. My present and future are completely created by me. I actually can choose to move forward and heal.

It took me a long time to step out of the quicksand. It took me a long time to see that once the abuse was over, that I could actually feel somewhat at peace with myself.

This is not to say at all that time heals all wounds. On the contrary.....we heal our wounds....either on our own, or with the help of others.

But wounds can heal....and we can actually feel the warmth of the sun when it shines on our faces without always feeling the chill of our abuse.

I ramble on too much.

Thanks,

Steve


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#125477 - 02/24/06 12:05 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Steven Heath Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 81
Loc: New York City
Just a post sript to my previous posting.

It is possible that it has no connection to the stream of thoughts here.

But it caused me to think and express.

If it is a total disconnect, please forgive me...some of my friends find it an endearing quality of mine....at least that is what they tell me.

Thanks again,

Steve


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#125478 - 02/24/06 02:43 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Danny,

I read through your last post several times and was moved by it. You spoke eloquently, passionately, and inoffensifely about what is important to you. I can agree with a large percentage of what you said, and respect you, as well as the views you expressed.

I cannot say the same for your first couple of posts on this thread. I've already expressed my opinion regarding them and will not enlarge on that again except to say that if I had happened on those posts as a newcomer to this site, they probably would have been the last ones I read. This place would have appeared to be unsafe to me, and I probably would not have come back.

I would only say that if you express your viewpoint about what is important to you with the same kind of passion and kindness with which you expressed yourself in this last post, people will respond positively.

In another place you said
Quote:
So I would ask you to look beyond my arrogance and listen to the message I am trying to transmit.
Which is where I was at, and would have let it go, except for one thing. That is the issue of the unsuspecting guy who comes here and is really hurting. If the first thing he encounters is one of the above posts, he more than likely will NOT return.

You ask us to overlook the arrogance, and I can and do. This, however, is not and should not be a one sided thing. You have a responsibility also to attempt to temper the way you come across and make it user friendly. It is possible to get your point across without offending the people you are trying to talk to right out of the starting gate.

I understand exactly where you are at. My wife tells me that I, too, can be arrogant and people are put off by me and the way I say things. Can anyone say "you spot it, you got it?"

Bottom line in what I am trying to say is lets do what we can at all times to try and make this a place of safety for the guys who come here seeking help.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#125479 - 02/25/06 03:48 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Danny,

As this thread has shifted into a discussion of just exactly what kind of recovery survivors should take personal responsibility for, I thought I would just comment on a few points that have arisen.

Quote:
If, however, you are having some heavy going in making your way through life, then you might seriously consider looking at the ideas offered with an open mind and without 'the male survivor nailed to the cross' mentality.
Although I know what you mean, the statement as it stands is harmful in my opinion. What it basically says is that if you are having some heavy going, that's your own fault: you are too closed-minded and you are too busy feeling sorry for yourself. That isn't what guys need to hear on the DB. Practically none of us know the entire cases of any of the others, and that sort of judgment is one that the survivor's own T should make.

The "survivor nailed to his cross" metaphor is inappropriate, and in fact I find it cruel. Guys coming here have a right to expect better than that.

Quote:
Lots of people want to FEEL better, many fewer are willing to do the work necessary to GET better.
I guess we see the world of survivors differently. I come here and I am proud of the hard work I see my brothers doing every day. I don't recall ever talking to anyone here - whether on the DB, in PM, or in chat - who thinks that he will feel better without doing the work.

The problem is that so many survivors - especially new guys - have such devastating doubts about themselves and such issues with self-esteem that they are not convinced that they CAN do the work. They need to be helped and encouraged just to get started - however long it takes.

Quote:
What I almost never see here in our posts is any type of encouragement to move beyond the pain and blame into the next stages of recovery where we learn to focus our energy and time on ourselves and slowly leave the obsession with the perpetratror behind.
Again, we see things differently. I don't think there is any lack of encouragement here for survivors to keep at their recovery and move forward. Perhaps where we part company is our view on how we can encourage each other. Frankly speaking, if I were a new survivor I would have been profoundly discouraged by a lot of what you say on this thread - but okay, perhaps that's just me. I think we encourage each other through support, validation, discussing our rough spots and problems, and offering suggestions in a non-judgmental way. Once we see for ourselves that many of our old fears and negative feelings are false and can no longer harm us, THEN we will feel ready to step forward and can do that, again with encouragement from others.

If a survivor is stuck and spinning his wheels, that is something for his T to discover and help with. Here, on the other hand, he needs to see that he has to find his own pace and that's okay. It just isn't right to call guys on the carpet for not meeting someone else's expectations and time line.

Finally, I don't think anyone disrespects you or is having a go at you personally. They are just reacting to opinions that you express, and I myself can see the point of their misgivings.

Just some further thoughts.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#125480 - 02/25/06 06:34 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Larry,
No surprise .... I see Danny's comments a little differently. I see them as thought provoking, a little kick-ass and dead bang on for some people. Yes, I agree, for some of the guys it may be a little bit too much pressure; but you know what? There are lots and lots of warm and supportive comments coming from lots of directions in this and other forums. I would hope that survivors new to MS, and otherwise, would avail themselves of the messages and communications from all the membership. There are so many good things being said. We need to take what is relevent to us, useful to us ... and discard the rest for the time being. Maybe what is discarded now may be useful some time down the road ... and then again, maybe not.
I could be wrong, but I've always found for myself that being challenged and stretched, made to feel vaguely uncomfortable is usually the precursor to personal growth and development. Change is never comfortable, and in fact people almost never change until not changing becomes more uncomfortable than changing. Just my 10 cents worth anyway. You're all great guys.
Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#125481 - 02/25/06 06:44 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Andrew,

Yep, no surprise. ;\) I'm glad you replied; we need to hear all sides when important and possibly contentious issues are raised.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#125482 - 02/25/06 07:01 AM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Larry,
One of the things I totally love about you is your ability to see the many facets of an issue.
I truly believe our greatest strength is our diversity, that there is a message for everyone.
Thanks to John, Steve, Danny, yourself and all the guys here on this thread and others. Our collective strength, energy and desire to heal makes absolutely everything and anything possible. God bless you all. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

Top
#125483 - 02/25/06 03:55 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Thanks Andrew, but please bear in mind that I feed off the vibes I get from everyone else here. It's the community aspect of things that matters.

That community consists of individuals with different experiences, so I think we must always expect that occasions will arise where we disagree, or where things misfire. What's crucial is that we not see these differences as personal attacks or slights.

Our ability to continue to communicate and share with such powerful results is our personal and collective victory - each and every day my friend.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#125484 - 02/25/06 06:11 PM Re: Accepting Personal Responsibility
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Quote:
Our ability to continue to communicate and share with such powerful results is our personal and collective victory - each and every day my friend.
I completely agree Larry.

Quote:
What's crucial is that we not see these differences as personal attacks or slights.

I agree with this also, but also think that we each have a responsibility to be sure our 'rebuttals' (differing opinions) are not personalized in nature. And yes, I know that is sometimes difficult because often people take personal ownership of their opinion and it is difficult to separate the two.

Having said all that ... this thread is getting way off base and we need to bring it back to its purpose. Take care. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

Top
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