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#124542 - 07/12/03 02:35 PM Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Hey,

Outis Joe and Ivanhoe David--that would be us-- were wondering who was planning on coming to the conference in Minneapolis?

Of those, who would be interested in having dinner together--casual, of course--the night of Wednesday, when many of us would be arriving?

Of those, who would be interested in planning on finding an area where we could debrief, deflate, or otherwise encourage one another when we need it? You know, locate a nook or a cranny where we could find each other at odd times during the conference when one or more of us may need to get away for a walk n' talk and maybe decompress a little.

I'm thinking that it would be great if we all could be there.

Peace, courage and some enjoyment this weekend to you all,

Joe and David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124543 - 07/12/03 03:27 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
me me me
I'll be there!

I have a friend with whom I will be staying and will ask for suggestions - It is raddison, near the university right?

will look for an appropriate dinner place - for Wed. night - and a nook - (good idea) That would be dinner for ??? how many?

any suggestions from our resident Minnesotans?

where are you guys planning to stay? I will, no doubt have a car, or access to one and could help meeting someone at the airport if that helps.

looking forward to it......

...t

_________________________
"..this place isn't a discussion forum..it's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

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#124544 - 07/12/03 04:05 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
BT Offline


Registered: 06/25/03
Posts: 388
Loc: Chicago IL
I am going and would really like to meet you guys. I am getting in too late for dinner on Wend. (11:30 p.m.) but the rest sounds great.

Brent

_________________________
"Everyone is entitled to their opinions and it is not my job to change their mind." Dali Lama

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#124545 - 07/12/03 05:53 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Yes, Thad, you're on the list that I've got of the guys who have told me that they are planning to attend the conference.
We think that meeting at the hotel is the best suggestion so far. Most of us are staying at the facility where it is to be held--The Radisson--and dinner there would be simpler to get to and nooks and crannies should abound for gathering afterwards.
OK, I'll call them.
OK, I called them. Doesn't sound too semi-private for dinner; it may be an Applebee's but they can accommodate 20 or more of us.
I'm not opposed to other suggestions, it just seems simpler than to have late arrivals wondering where we may be.
And, Brent, I have a feeling that some of us insomniacs may be up past 11:30--should we save you a sandwich?

David..

Who else?

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124546 - 07/12/03 07:35 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I will be at the conference but I am planning to arrive on thursday.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#124547 - 07/12/03 08:44 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Bob,

We'll make certain that you know where our "hideout," is. Our gang would not be complete without you.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124548 - 07/12/03 09:22 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Gents,

As I told you, I also will be going.

But regarding Wednesday evening, I won't be done with stuff until about 8:30pm and couldn't make it north to downtown, which is actually where I live till 9pm-ish.

I'll take whatever is left,

Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#124549 - 07/13/03 01:11 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
Of those, who would be interested in planning on finding an area where we could debrief, deflate, or otherwise encourage one another when we need it? You know, locate a nook or a cranny where we could find each other at odd times during the conference when one or more of us may need to get away for a walk n' talk and maybe decompress a little.
I'll be going, of course, and I should be in town in time for dinner. I wrote to Peter Dimock about the "safe place" and here's part of his reply.

Quote:
We will have a safe room available at all time during the conference and also a qualified counselor, therapist on call. If anyone needs to talk they simply go to the safe room (identified in the program) an use the phone to page the therapist on call. Volunteer and hotel staff will also know about the safe room and have the number for the on call therapist.

We will also have some times and space designated for survivors who want to get together for support and to talk with each other.
So we can still set up a regular place to meet before any social arrangements we have together, but our conference organizers are already watching out for our safety.

I'm looking forward to see you guys there.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#124550 - 07/14/03 02:51 AM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
I will also be at the conference the whole week. I will have a place to stay at my brother in laws. as far as a place to eat wed I will look around and see if we can book a few tables for 10 -15 people. I don't know what you all like to eat and how many $$$$ you want to spend. Any ideas let me know, Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#124551 - 07/14/03 04:40 AM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Tom,

There are places within walking distance of the hotel, but I have been thinking that to be at the hotel will make it easier for late arrivals.
It's supposed to be an Applebee's and they will be able to accommmodate 20 + of us.
I've got you on the list of those coming.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124552 - 07/14/03 07:31 AM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Count me in on all activities \:\)

Jim


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#124553 - 07/14/03 05:54 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Jim,

Just saw your post about, "being there."

I included you on my list when you said before that you were coming.

Now if I can just quell my anxiety about all of this, maybe I'll actually enjoy meeting you all.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124554 - 07/17/03 02:36 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Gentlemen,

I hope to attend at least some of the workshops at the conference. I too am looking forward to meeting my friends, known and not-yet-met, at the conference.

If my plans stay on track, I hope to be moving to an area south of Minneapolis by the beginning of Sept.

peace,

jer


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#124555 - 07/17/03 04:52 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Jer,

Boy, you really take these conferences seriously, don't you? You're moving to Minnesota just to attend the conference?

Just kidding, of course.

Looking forward to meeting you, too.

Good Luck with the move.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124556 - 07/21/03 09:24 AM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
David (Ivanhoe),
LOL dude. Yes, I'm moving to MN just for the conference. Woo, oh yeah baby. Thanks \:\) I needed a smile which I got when I read it, pardon my delay in responding here.

Perhaps your anxiety will drop once you've met some of the attendees and gotten the lay of the land. I have some too, but have found that I've been able to relax and enjoy meeting new people in these types of events. That we all have one common thread, CSA/SA, and represent such a diverse group makes attending the conference especially interesting for me.

To meet some of the posters and chatters, as well as the behind the scenes organizers of MS, is going to be a trip. I'm not sure what to expect, I hope I can be open and honest and real.

jer


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#124557 - 07/21/03 09:44 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
well, as an ex-patriot of MN, I'm not sure one needs a reason to move there. It's a beautiful place that I love to return to - and an excellant choice for those needing a good mid-western welcome.
...t

_________________________
"..this place isn't a discussion forum..it's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

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#124558 - 07/21/03 11:42 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Thad, I'm glad you said "MN" and not "MS" hehe. I did a double take. Yeah, it is different from the rat race, get the f out of my way, mentality I've experienced on the east coast.
jer


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#124559 - 07/22/03 09:29 AM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
How I envy you guys that are going. Due to circumstances I will not be able to attend and will have to satisfy myself by hearing all about it when you return and post.

I hope that all of you have a reallyg great time and enjoy the interaction.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#124560 - 07/22/03 09:54 AM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Hey jer,

If you think that in moving over here you are getting out of the traffic pretzle, I hate to be the one to burst your bubble.

We got the same brand of maniacs over here; sure they may be minnestoa nice, but it just gives a different slant on the concept ; imagine that, "nice maniacs" with big scary vehicles!!!!!! Your only hope is that you have a bigger mode of transport than they do!!!!

nyuh-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaa!

Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#124561 - 07/24/03 06:18 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Ron,

I'm here to ditto your take on the traffic of the Twin Dities: can any US city have the traffic jam that you guys have on Friday eve. with everyone heading out to the lakes?

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124562 - 07/25/03 08:18 AM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Not only major traffic pretzles, but all the Minnesota nice people have unlicenced hand guns. Yikes.


Top
#124563 - 07/25/03 11:51 AM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
And a former pro-wrestler for governor!

and people say Texas folks are nuts......
:rolleyes:

Hope all of you guys will have a wonderful timen in Minneapolis.
From what I remember it's a great city.

You'll have each other there and that's a great thing.

Man, I've been trying to figure out a way to get there, but it ain't happened yet.

If I could just get those last two brain cells I've got up there to collide.......maybe a spark..... :p

A lot of what's keeping me back from making the decision to be in Minneapolis is some really crazy fear.

Fear of me somehow screwing up this thing MS, that has become so important to me. Fear of not fitting in; of doing something inappropriate (like what? farting in the sweat lodge?).

But this thread may not be the best place for talking about that.

How about a new thread on the anxiety and fear we can feel about something like Minneapolis?

And the hopefulness and pleasant expectation that goes right along with it, at least for me?

Am I the only one who somehow manages to be worried and fearful about how it would be to meet all of you guys, but at the same would like nothing more in the world to see and talk to each and every one of you?

Crazy mix of hope and fear. Which will win out?

Staying tuned,

Your brother,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#124564 - 07/25/03 01:50 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Danny and all,

I think that this is the perfect place to discuss our hopes and fears about attending things like the conference. Maybe, in some unconscious way, that's why I entitled this, "Minnesota or Bust."

I know that I was thinking, "I'm gunna do this or........... ."
So the old sojourner's saying came to mind.

You want me to talk about my fears.

I got fears.

This guy you "see" sitting before you typing like he knows what he's talking about, has got..
F...E...A...R...S about Minnesota, about Port Orchard, about going to the doctor, the dentist, large crowds, small crowds, meeting new people, meeting old--pre-known people.

But let's keep this in the realm of going/coming to the conference.

We might scare some others, we might discover other fears we never thought about--I never thought about THAT--but, we could even assuage some of that fear. We might persuade some others to come because they see that we have some of the same fear and we're trying to get there without crumpling into a pile on the floor.

So, yes, this is a good forum for that. It's about coming to the conference and some of the fear associated with that challenge.

Thanks, Danny, for giving us, "permission," to fess up here and maybe get some strength from each other.

Something tells me that I'd feel safer sleeping in a room with 30 of you guys rather than in a room by myself.

That I don't want to hear words and phrases like, sex abuse, or sex abuse survivor, or male survivor of sex abuse.

Somehow those words are safe here; I think that I'm going to be nervous to hear those words spoken in public and that I'M, associated with those words...that I was abused. This forum is somewhat private, I don't have to look anybody in the eyes when those words are spoken...spoken....spoken.

Ya, I got fear about Minneapolis, but what am I hoping for?

I know that I'm going to like meeting you, shaking your hands and maybe hugging one or two of you that I've become fond of, here.

I'm hoping to draw strength from you and knowledge from our presenters.

I'm looking forward to meeting you and thanking some of you for the support that you've given to me and to other brothers.

I'm hoping to discovering friends that I always wanted to have.

I'm looking forward to Minnesota, or bust.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124565 - 07/25/03 02:20 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Sir David, your chivalry is showing again. I'm not joking. See below.

Maybe this is a good sign, a thread that tended to humor now evolving into something more substantial.

I watched the home page, and reloaded the main page in the browser several times a day waiting for the conference registration to open up. When it did, I registered immediately. I'm sure I was one of the first.

And I'm scared. I keep trying to picture what it's going to be like. What will the guys think of "the real me" if I'm even able to let him out? What if someone looks or sounds like the perp? What if I say or do something so incredibly stupid that no one wants to hear from me ever again?

I've read a lot of good things about Joe here. When do I begin believing them? What if I prove you were wrong when we meet in person? (Not you specifically, David, but any of the guys who attend.)

I'm looking forward to some conversations I'm afraid to start online. Maybe that's when I'll show just how screwed up I am and alienate myself.

I'm going, barring some disaster. Fear alone won't stop me this time. Fear has claimed too much of my life. There's nothing cowardly about having fear, right? Courage is facing fear, and forcing it to back down, not being without fear, right?

I guess I like the title of the thread. Well chosen.

Thanks,

Joe


chivalry, n [Middle English chivalrie, from Old French chevalerie, from chevalier, knight. See chevalier.]
  • 1. The medieval system, principles, and customs of knighthood.
  • 2.
    • a. The qualities idealized by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honor, and gallantry toward women.
    • b A manifestation of any of these qualities.


    [*]A group of knights or gallant gentlemen.


_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#124566 - 07/25/03 06:47 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
BT Offline


Registered: 06/25/03
Posts: 388
Loc: Chicago IL
Thanks Ivanhoe for the Sandwich offer. If some of you guys are still up and I know where to look I will definatly be there. My flight gets in at 11:30 and I have no Idea when I will get to the hotel. Maybe I can get an earlier flight.

_________________________
"Everyone is entitled to their opinions and it is not my job to change their mind." Dali Lama

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#124567 - 07/25/03 09:27 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Brent and others who may not be able to make it for dinner.

I'm going to ask the folks that may be there before the some of us that can make it to dinner, to scope out that perfect niche, you know, the one that has an incredible conversation pit, great fireplace, off in a corner--good view optional--where we can visit in a semi-private mode.

We should be able to let the desk know where we are--that is, if they don't already know, and will not want to add to the already too much to deal with, and direct you to some sub-basement.

We will behave ourselves until at least 2 AM, at which time we will commence with the TP'ing of Minneapolis.

{{{{Shhhh, that last part is not, I repeat, not, for publication.}}}}

Signed: The entertainment committee.


Whatever you do, do not mention any of this to the mods.....I am in, "cloaked-privacy mode," am I not.............

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124568 - 07/25/03 11:00 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
BT Offline


Registered: 06/25/03
Posts: 388
Loc: Chicago IL
I will be late but I can bring the TP

_________________________
"Everyone is entitled to their opinions and it is not my job to change their mind." Dali Lama

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#124569 - 07/28/03 04:23 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
BT Offline


Registered: 06/25/03
Posts: 388
Loc: Chicago IL
Hey everyone I was able to rework my schedule and get my flight changed. I will arrive at the airport at 6:22 p.m now so asumming all goes as planned should be able to make dinner. So count me in.

Looking forward to seeing all you guys.

BT

_________________________
"Everyone is entitled to their opinions and it is not my job to change their mind." Dali Lama

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#124570 - 07/28/03 05:22 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
I just booked my flight this afternoon. I have a flight reservation, a hotel reservation, and a conference registration. Looks good to go.

Now for the waiting. Maybe I can pass some of the time searching online for good deals on toilet pap... um, never mind, forget I said that.

\:D

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

Top
#124571 - 07/28/03 06:55 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
The longer this post gets, the longer my sour puss gets at my jealousy over not being able to be there for the big "howdy doody" sheebang. I will try to slide in about 9:30pm, darn younz anway, for a mini visit/hello. I am after all an unapologetic joy junkie with a big fix, which I fullly expect to have gratified come September.

Awwwwww Sc*ucks!

\:D

Con Sour Grapes

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#124572 - 07/28/03 10:25 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
For those of you who are thinking about coming to the conf but are not sure about "fitting in" or safety, I can say that having been to all but one of the conferences in the past 15 years, it is a safe place where survivors DO fit in.

The conf staff goes out of its way to make sure the facility is safe. There is a safe room for anyone who gets upset or shaky and I've seen lots of caring and accomodation for people's needs. This even went so far as Richard Gartner, our president, giving his Teddy Bear to a survivor who needed it more than him last conf in NY.

I don't know if it can be done, but if we have extra room from a cancelled workshop available, or if we can have access to a room at the end of the day for MS forum people to gather, we could try to set something up where you could hang out for a while before heading off to dinner.

Remember, as much as the conf is for professionals who want to learn more to help survivors, it is just as much a conference for survivors to connect and get help.

Hope you will consider coming and connecting.

Ken


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#124573 - 07/28/03 11:00 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
I just booked my flight this afternoon. I have a flight reservation, a hotel reservation, and a conference registration. Looks good to go.
And today my T shirt arrived! The die is cast.

\:\)

BTW, the shirt looks cool.

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#124574 - 07/29/03 01:46 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Hey, Guys,

Let's hear a round of applause for Ken and his assurance that we'll all be cared for at the conference. I'll bet that most of us knew that, but appreciate being told .

I mean, what could we expect from an organization that's provided us with this forum, and mods to moderate.

And because MS has set this up, it has attracted caring, concerned people like us. We DO care about each other and that's what makes this site unique.

I'm liking the fact that there will be a safe room where we can get some of the pro's help if we need it.

I'm thinking that we'll have some safeguards of our own, certainly less formal but caring and encouraging, just the same.

One of those safeguards you've heard me suggest is the "senior table." Remember those? You know, those tables or table in our high shcool cafeteria--is cafeterium, the singular form?--where most of us weren't welcome, even when we were seniors?

The idea, of course, is to have some niche where we can gather, casually, when and if we need some company and conversation, or just to know that we're still brothers and we're still, "in this together," pretty much like it is here.

The gathering on Wednesday evening can be a great time for "breaking the ice," and "testing the waters," something that Minnesotans have a great deal of experience doing.

Hey, I just remembered, the conference will be after Labor Day. Doesn't it start snowing up there on Labor Day Eve? It's a state holiday, isn't it, when Minnesota goes from green to white?

Ya'eh sur'e, you betcha, "The Minnesoda Labor Day Eve Snow Festival."
In all seriousness, guys, you do know, of course, that this is how Minnesota gets its population. They get people to schedule conferences, conventions, that sorta thing, in September, when most of us are thinking about beautiful Falls, and when the conference folks and convention gatherers, gather, the snow hits, airports close and all of those stranded people have to become residents.
There really should have been a disclaimer printed in the conference material, reminding the attendees that coming to this conference, one runs the risk of having to become a resident of Minnesota and that a 10 round bout with the Governor is also required.

So, even though we will be dealing with some heavy personal issues and that caring is a priority, we may even have a little fun, too.

Very soberly yours,

Using a little comedy to relief the anxiety that I'm experiencing about all of this,

Your brother in the struggle, sending love and encouragement to his new found friends,

I remain, eternally grateful for you guys,

davy

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#124575 - 08/05/03 02:29 PM Re: Minnesota or bust...............
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
AN UPDATE FROM LAKE WOBEGONE:

I have just discovered that for us to have a private room for dinner on Wednesday night, the hotel would require that we order off of their banquet menu, that we would all have to order the same thing and that the least expensive dinner is $19.95. I did mention that there could be 10 to 15 for dinner and they responded that they would waive the cost of the room.
I thanked them for their information---zowie--and said that we would, in that case, use the Appleby's attached to the hotel.

We won't have any real privacy but maybe we don't need it for dinner, and besides, we should be able to find a place to visit, later, somewhere within the hotel site.

That's all I got, wished I had something clever to say, but I will remind you to bring water wings and your hockey skates, you never know about the snow in Minnesoda.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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