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#122966 - 12/31/06 07:52 PM Re: Check this out!
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I was comparing Hitler to Osama Bin Ladin, not my President, ok? Please note that I respect the Presidency always, but not the current one's insane foreign policy. (Both were harmless until they garnered the financial and networking support of everyday people that had legitimate grievances).

You are remiss in your military history my friend, have you ever heard of "Trench Warfare"? It's a nasty bloody, nasty, terrible way of fighting. There was a stalemate. Germany was NOT WINNING.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_warfare

And the Germans and French were SICK OF IT. They were ready to sign a truce in 1916, but NO, the United States mercantile industry ignored NUMEROUS public announcements given by the German Government via Front Page Newspaper ads stating the the waters around U.K. were considered a War Zone and that guarantees of neutrality could NOT be assured. Now, did unrestricted submarine warfare compel us to go to war? Yes. BUT WHAT GIVES WE AMERICANS THE RIGHT TO PRESUME THAT WE AS CITIZENS CAN GO ANYWERE IN THE WORLD AND DO WHATEVER WE WANT AND HAVE OUR MILITARY INTERCEDE IN ANY SITUATION THAT OUR LEADERS WISH TO DO SO IN?

President Woodrow Wilson started the dreaded income tax (which was only to finance WWI but it's STILL with us today, Thanks a lot President Wilson). President Wilson condemned 60,000, that's SIXTY THOUSAND Americans to death, or horrible wounds, and psychological scarrs. AND FOR WHAT? So that French Polynesia could remain.....French?

Jason would YOU go fight and die for a foreign country? Well go ahead, more power to you, but please don't assume that it's ok to take MY MONEY to involve MY COUNTRY'S military in the affairs of the age old problems of Europe or any other area of the world.

When you say that we would be speaking German right now if not for sacrificing SIXTY THOUSAND Americans back then is not only cliche, it's just plain wrong.

HERE AGAIN WE MUST CONSIDER UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. It is TOTALLY reasonable to assume that had we NOT entered WWI and tipped the scales of power in the Allies favor, there WOULD have been a truce signed by 1916, and the existing governments of Russia and Germany would have remained in power, meaning no Soviet Union and no Hitler coming into being.

Winston Churchill, the leader of the U.K. during WWII and Lord of the Admiralty during WWI said: "America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War. If you hadn't entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the Spring of 1917. Had we made peace then there would have been no collapse in Russia followed by Communism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all these 'isms' wouldn't today be sweeping the continent in Europe and breaking down parliamentary government, and if England had made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, and American and other lives."

But all this is ancient history, so why am I bringing it up? I'm bringing it up because history is more than slogans being taught in High School, (We would be speaking German right now," public education, don't get me started lol) it's human nature being relived over and over, it's a continual confirmation that we must treat our government with great skepticism and to not give it so much money and power that it now has.

And to follow up about why Radical Muslims hate so many foreigners, do you have ANY idea HOW MANY times the Middle East has been invaded and occupied by outside nations? The Mongols, the Russians, the Turks, the British, the French, and many other countries I'm sure have invaded and made colonies out of the countries of the Middle East for many centuries. I don't blame them for teaching their children the truth in that regard, but even the "radical" Muslim leaders that profess true hate ARE NO THREAT to us if they cannot garner the networking, finances and support of regular everyday people that have LEGITIMATE reasons to hate us.


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#122967 - 12/31/06 08:19 PM Re: Check this out!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Read this, execution just leads to many innocent ppl losing their lives.
Troops are put in more mortal danger by hanging him on such an important feast day.

Quote:
IN MECCA, many Sunni Arab pilgrims voiced outrage. In Gaza, his hanging was compared to the sacrificial slaughter of a sheep on the day of Eid. In Saddam Hussein's own impoverished home village of Awja, they proclaimed him a martyr and promised to avenge him, while in Iraq's Shi'ite and Kurdish communities, they danced in the streets. Whatever the reaction to the hanging of Saddam across the Middle East and wider Islamic world yesterday, the one certainty was that the bombers would strike and the sectarian violence that has wracked the country would be racheted up to another bloody level.

Predictably, within hours of the former dictator dropping from the gallows, 36 people were killed and 58 wounded by a car bomb at a packed marketplace in Kufa near the Shi'ite holy city of Najaf. A little later, another three car bombs ripped through the mainly Shi'ite neighbourhood of Hurriya in Baghdad, killing 25 more Iraqis and wounding 65 others. That more such attacks will come is virtually guaranteed.

For most Iraqis, it had always been a matter of when, not if, Saddam would be executed. Capital punishment is nothing new to the Arab and Islamic world. In Saudi Arabia, beheading by the sword has been carried out for years, while hanging and death from shooting by firing squad is used in other countries.

For many across the Middle East region and beyond, it was not the method of killing Saddam that provoked their real fury - horrific as it was - but the timing of the execution, coinciding as it did with the Muslim feast of Eid al-Adha or festival of sacrifice.
continued...


What is more, the Eid also falls during the five-day hajj, when more than two million Muslims from around the world follow ancient rites at the Islamic holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia.

One of the most important dates in the Islamic calendar, Eid al-Adha marks biblical patriarch Abraham's willingness to kill his son for God. In many Muslim countries, criminals are often pardoned to mark the occasion, and prisoners are rarely executed. Perhaps not surprisingly then that for many Muslims, Saddam's execution on such an auspicious date seemed especially vindictive.

"This is the worst Eid ever witnessed by Muslims. I had goosebumps when I saw the footage," said Jordanian Rana Abdullah, summing up the feelings of many Arabs.

Although some Shi'ites may regard his death as an Eid gift from God, for hardline Sunnis it will confirm their worst views against Shi'ites as heretics in league with Washington.

"What is he Saddam, a sheep? I think the Americans wanted to tell all Arab leaders who are their servants that they are like Saddam, nothing but a sheep slaughtered on the day of Eid," said Abu Mohammad Salama, a Palestinian worshipper in that other troubled part of the Middle East, the Gaza Strip.

News of Saddam's death shocked Palestinians, many of whom had seen him as a steadfast ally ever since he launched his Scud missile attacks on Israel during the 1991 Gulf war which ended Iraq's occupation of Kuwait.

While opinions of Saddam the leader and the man might have varied across the region, this disquiet over the timing of his killing was almost universal.

"I don't have any sorrow or compassion for the man, but the timing is very stupid and Muslims will think this was done to provoke their feelings," said Ehab Abdel-Hamid, a novelist and senior editor at Cairo's independent al-Dostour newspaper.

In Saudi Arabia, the leading Sunni power in the Middle East, there was open criticism of Iraq's Shi'ite leaders for their decision to carry out the hanging during Eid.

"There is a feeling of surprise and disapproval that the verdict has been applied during the holy months and the first days of Eid al-Adha," a presenter on the official al-Ikhbariya TV said.

"Leaders of Islamic countries should show respect for this blessed occasion ... not demean it," said the presenter in a statement which was attributed to official news agency SPA's political analyst.

In London, Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the Al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper, went a step further in his criticism during an interview with al-Jazeera television.

"Arab public opinion wonders who deserves to be tried and executed: Saddam Hussein, who preserved the unity of Iraq, its Arab and Islamic identity and the coexistence of its different communities such as Shi'ites and Sunnis ... or those who engulfed the country in this bloody civil war?"

In Afghanistan, Mullah Obaidullah, a top commander of the resurgent Taliban, said Saddam's death would galvanise Muslim opposition to the US. "His death will boost the morale of Muslims. The jihad in Iraq will be intensified and attacks on invader forces will increase," he said.

For Arabs and Muslims everywhere, the drama of Saddam's last minutes was brought into living rooms by television pictures of masked hangmen tightening a noose around his neck and later pictures of his body wrapped in a white shroud, his head just visible with a smear of blood on his cheek.

Libya, the only state to show solidarity with Saddam in his death, declared three days of mourning and cancelled public Eid celebrations while flags on government buildings flew at half-mast.

Other Arab governments were more restrained in their reaction, while a senior aide to Arab League secretary-general Amr Moussa called the execution "a tragic end to a sad phase in Iraq's history". But in Saddam's home village of Awja, outside Tikrit, surrounded by orchards and palm groves next to the Tigris river, 90 miles north of Baghdad, locals were both philosophical and angry about the village's most famous son's violent end. It was in Awja that Saddam, 69, rose from poverty to rule Iraq by fear for three decades before he was toppled by the US invasion in 2003.

"Saddam is the legal president of Iraq. If they execute him we will rise up. We will all become a bomb," said one young man who still remained sceptical that the former Ba'athist leader had actually been killed.

One of Awja's older villagers, a woman, was more resigned. "It is God's will. There is nothing in our hands we can do," she said, shrugging her shoulders.


_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#122968 - 12/31/06 09:30 PM Re: Check this out!
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
this thread has covered so much ground,i agree that our govt. does things we dont know about ,but on 9 11 or in the days after i can safely say that 90% of the american people wanted something done ,all bush did was give the people what they wanted,if he had done nothing he would have been kicked out of office , also history shows that the american people suffered the same things these other countries are suffering now ,but what did the americans do ? they fought for what was right ,for independence and they did it and won . this country might not be perfect,but its the best thing going ,we have more freedom than any other.the iraq people decided sadamms fate not the us ,they chose when to do it not the us ,i think he should have rotted in his own prison till he died ,also it was mentioned earlier in ths thread about how the swiss and dutch have no wars or fights with anybody in the world . very cool . they also account for about 60% of the child porn thats out there,what is the age of consent there?15 ?and are they trying to lower it to 13? my cousin had a huge collection of kiddy porn ,except for the ones he made of me they all came from these peacefull nuetral countries ,whats up with that? i agree with endless, those soldiers are not fighting for bush or for oil they are fighting for an ideal ,that people deserve a choice you dont have to live like we do but you should be able to decide if you want to ,i loved the comment from the iraqi mother of three ,sadam was a hero she said and i will teach my children to kill americans ,well i say bring it on ,in this country our motto is if you fuck with us we will make you pay ,believe it! i agree that it sucks that tax money is used ,but i dont complain that its used for supplies for our military,i complain that its being used to feed, house, educate and provide medical care for those who will be killing us in the near future. i do agree we should get the hell out of iraq ,pull out and let these lunatic fanatics wipe each other out! its been said we caused all of this but history shows these people been killing each other for centuries ,long before there ever was a great satan called america to blame it on .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#122969 - 12/31/06 09:49 PM Re: Check this out!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Adam, an eye for an eye, or whatever, is the world going blind.
I learned as a child to do no harm and be a good kid, and I was.

War begets war, terror begets terror.
The troops are in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban who are using weapons made by their past masters the US government.

They are fighting illegal wars in Sovereign countries against the Geneva convention.
My country is filled with machine guns sold after the Bosnian war, and the gangs are using them against the cops.

They are also being used against the people and gang wars over drugs, so let us see an end to violence in our time, for the sake of the kids of today,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#122970 - 01/02/07 07:37 PM Re: Check this out!
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Ste, although your comments are quite relevant to the subject(s) being discussed in this thread, and I see no reason to disagree with what you've been saying, you seem to focus more on the abuses of power, rather than the fact that if our Governments were not given the cornucopia of money, which in the U.S.A's case, comes from our income tax, they WOULD NOT be able to cause all these problems in the first place.

America once financed it Federal Government with mere tarrifs and excise taxes. And it was a tax system that worked beautifully, because if they raised the taxes too high, we as consumers would simply stop buying the products that they would be presumably overtaxing. BUT, with the passage of the 16th Amendment (the income tax UNNGGG!!!, thanks AGAIAN President Wilson), they have UNLIMITED funds to raise! Why? Because what are we citizens going to do? Not work? We HAVE NO CHOICE but to work and feed and support ourselves and our families.

So my point is, repeal the 16th Amendment, and my country, just as it was unable to enter WWI without the income tax to finance it, would no longer be able to go over over the world and butting into the affairs of other nations and stirring up resentments towards Americans with an insane foreign policy.

ste? Doe's the U.K. tax your income as well?


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#122971 - 01/02/07 09:43 PM Re: Check this out!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Hauser, we are paying highly for it here too.
Its the working ppl who pay for a war that nobody really wants or agrees with.

If people knew the human cost of such wars, there would be riots in the US and here in UK.
They are cutting anything they can here, and raising tax by the back door.

I remember seeing an interview with a Chechen terrorist, and he said.
What makes me a terrorist!
"I had to witness my whole family being raped by soldiers and then killed in front of me".

That says much of it,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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