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#122956 - 12/25/06 11:57 AM Re: Check this out!
endlessjourney Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 518
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
I do think before I talk and I don't appreciate your belittling comments ste. What I'm saying is that there are countless terrorist plots against the U.S. Our government may be corrupt. I can't say I would blame a nation for retaliating if another one invades it. However, it is important to protect ourselves. Yea, maybe no nation can invade us and take over the U.S. but they sure as hell can kill plenty of us. In 911, did Al qeada take over the U.S. No! They just killed thousands. You must be an advocate of the concept "turn the other cheek". Why don't you just invite them in and say "hey! its OK to kill us, were bad and we take over the world". For all of your information, I never advocated invading other countries including Iraq accept for going to afghanistan to hunt down Al-Qeada. Please read what I wrote and don't speak out of your anger and political angst. I hear your opinion and respect it. There is no need to formulate your own biased propoganda. This is a common debate, not a boxing match.

Hauser,

Thank you for your statement. Your replies are always held in high regards by me. Firmly I believe that we should step up our security in our nation. The plot that was foiled by british operatives about four months ago is an example. The terrorist plot to send thugs over here on planes to bomb the airport in NY is one example. Another plot was foiled recently, catching terror plots to bomb the tunnel that runs beneathe the english channel. This is not just about us, but is about the western civilization as a whole. These terrorists (not all muslims or middle easterners)want to kill us. They have stated it repeatedly. I would imagine that you have seen that on the news. CNN etc... Yes, we pissed the world off but we can't just stop protecting our country. These people need to know that, "if you kill our people, you will suffer the wrath of the Red white and blue". I advocate patriotism, not emperialism.

Jason

_________________________
Truth is the very reason we strive to live. It surrounds and resides within us. Accepting the truths we already know and seeking out those we do not is a direct path to inner balance and joy. For life is not a means to an end, but a journey. Life comes and goes but the truth will always live on.

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#122957 - 12/25/06 02:56 PM Re: Check this out!
froggy12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 527
Loc: Marlboro, MA 01752
Power corrupts
Absolute power corrupts absolutely

Lord Acton

frogman, ribbit

_________________________
??

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#122958 - 12/25/06 03:15 PM Re: Check this out!
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
froggy you are so right -

the legacy of such is a tragedy.

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#122959 - 12/25/06 06:28 PM Re: Check this out!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Those who wield the sword of power, the ones who are too cowardly to fight their own evil deeds, but use others as their tool of war, it wasnt always like that, but sadly today it is.

Think Peace!
Talk Peace!
Make Peace!
Seek Peace!

You will be rewarded for your effort ;\)

G- ribbit,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#122960 - 12/29/06 07:33 AM Re: Check this out!
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Jason, I will respond to this, in good time. I want you to REALLY think about the questions that you have asked me in the mean-time, ok?


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#122961 - 12/29/06 08:07 AM Re: Check this out!
endlessjourney Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 518
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
Hauser,

You'll have to be more specific about which questions you are speaking of. I also could think about my own perspective over and over and have the same result. You see, I look at everything I see around me and observe of all sides of the story, not just one. I don't make judgements on anger or insecurity. Ste mentioned all of those who have power are evil "Those who wield the sword of power, the ones who are too cowardly to fight their own evil deeds, but use others as their tool of war, it wasnt always like that, but sadly today it is". That is immensely irrational but I can understand what it is like to never trust any authority from my past experiences which I am sure you can relate as well. There has to be some order instilled in any group of people or this world would be in intense chaos. You may say it is now but, fortunately, you don't have to worry about barbaric tribes coming into your home, raping and pilaging. We do not do that to other nations. Yea there are some troops that give the rest of us a bad name as well as some politicians but I believe are intentions are for good. "It is all about greed". Yes, there is money involved. There is something of value involved in conflict we have.

Instead of fighting against ourselves, over criticizing, and saying what we are doing wrong, why don't YOU come up with some solutions. This world can and will not function without leaders, period. Hauser, I think you need to do some thinking yourself. You and Ste are in this fantasy world and neither one of you can say what would be best for this nation. All you are doing is complaining. Even as a child, I've learned that whining never gets anything done.

I have a lot of love for both of you but I feel that both of your views are extremely biased, which inturn distorts your perceptions of reality. If the government was out to get us, we would be slaves. If you say we are, then I don't think you know what a real slave is. You say we take advantage of the rest of the world at everyone else's expense, well, we invite the rest of the world into our nation as well. Would that make any sense to you.

By the way, thanks to the U.S., Saddam, a mass murderer of 100's of thousands is being put to death. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Also, you're not the only ones that have loved one's in Iraq. I do as well. Some of them are very educated and are still proud to be there. I am proud of them.

Why don't you really think about that... OK?

Jason

_________________________
Truth is the very reason we strive to live. It surrounds and resides within us. Accepting the truths we already know and seeking out those we do not is a direct path to inner balance and joy. For life is not a means to an end, but a journey. Life comes and goes but the truth will always live on.

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#122962 - 12/29/06 07:43 PM Re: Check this out!
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Thank you for elaborating Jason. Complaining? Me? \:\) Yes, I have I been. Ok, no more complaining, and time to offer some solutions. Yes, I could go on complaining but I think you got my points. Ok so here goes:

I would like to offer a solution to what you had eluded to in that earlier post in which our governments of the U.S. and U.K. have kept us safe since 9-11. But I MUST ask again Jason, WHY are they still trying to attack us? I don't know how many times I have to ask this and be ignored. This is a very important question, and I strongly suggest that if this a question that we do not force ourselves or our leaders to answer, nothing will change, we will have perpetual war, with the enemy at the gates the rest of our lives.

Now, having given JUST SOME reasons for why we're hated all over the planet I will make a suggestion of how to make the terrorists back off and not want to kill us anymore ok? In other words, we won't HAVE to be CONSTANTLY trying foil terrorist plots against us if thugs like Osama Bin Ladin cannot muster up the finances and network support that he and his ilk need in order to hurt us.

You DO realize that Osama and other terrorists rely on regular people to help protect and finance their terrorist activities right? Example: You live in Sudan, you live next to an Aspirin factory, an American Cruiser launches Tomahawk missiles at said aspirin factory because American "Intelligence" has led it to believe that said asprin factory is harboring terrorists. As a Muslim citizen who's loved one, a Father, Brother, Mother, is KILLED by Americans with their missiles, you then have an incentive to protect and support people like Osama Bin Ladin, because he is one of the only means at your disposal for getting back at the people that killed your loved ones.

Jason, this is not unlike the fact that Hitler used the hatred of the French that invaded the Ruhr Valley in 1922 in order to keep the Germans from becoming an industrial power again. Hitler was the ONLY one that stood up to the hated French, and the German people KNEW that he fomented a lot a hatred towards other people like the Jews, but they didn't care, he was the only one that dared to speak out against the hated French that INVADED their country without even declaring war, (sound familiar?) Does this make sense to you? Sorry I will elaborate a little more:

Hitler alone was no threat to ANYONE hardly, but Hitler, using LEGITIMATE reasons to garner support and money, became a figurehead of evil and power that killed millions of people that he would otherwise have never been able to do. BUT, EVEN THEN (sorry I have to add this) this would NOT have happened (Hitler's rise to power) if President Woodrow Wilson had not crafted the income tax to finance the entry of America into WW1, tipped the scales of power to the Allies favor, (when in 1916, after years over bloody and horrifying trench warfare, the Germans and the French were on the verge of signing a truce), and consigned the German people to humiliation and economic deprivation. What’s my point in this small digression? AMERICA’S MEDDLING IN THE AFFAIRS OF OTHER COUNTRIES DISPUTES CREATES UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. Our entry into World War One facilitated Hitler’s rise to power. This is not some wild conspiracy theory; it’s a matter of public record.
Ok, enough history. I will now propose a solution. Here goes:

President Bush could actually do something SMART! He could hold a press conference or go to the U.N. and make a public statement. In that statement he could say this:

“I’m sorry that I can’t undo 100 years of unacceptable and mistaken American Foreign Policy. As Commander-in-Chief, I am ordering all American Forces to come home and they now have orders to defend ONLY ourselves. I am asking the Congress to withdraw from NATO. I am issuing this order because I now understand that the presence of American forces all over the world is the principle cause of anti-American sentiment which provides support, networking, and manpower for thugs Like Osama Bin Ladin. I am going to stop telling other countries who their leaders should be or what their foreign policy must be. I can buy off foreign leaders with American tax money, but I can't buy the friendship of the people in those countries – people who suffer because of misguided policies forced on them by our past deals with those leaders.”

To continue, President Bush could go on to say:

“I am ending ALL foreign aid, military and economic. I now realize that it’s a terrible system of whereby poor people in our rich countries give money to rich people in poor countries and those rich people are typically dictators who rule over people who know damn well who put those dictators in power. I am no longer taking sides in foreign political or military battles, the inherent unintended consequences of America’s meddling in the affairs of other nations is simply to great a cost to pay for whatever immediate rewards are ever gained in the first place. I now realize that most foreigners don’t care if we’re a “free” country, but that they DO care if we’re interfering with their own country.”

And in final:

“I am asking the Congress to put up a taxpayer financed reward for 100 Billion Dollars to the first private company that can develop and build a working missile defense system for our country, and our country alone. With a working missile defense system, my fellow politicians and our future leaders will no longer have an excuse to pry into the affairs of other nations. They will no longer need to issue a steady stream of alarms and frightening problems all over the world that demand our interference because they will no longer have anything to fear of other nations. And when THIS happens, along with our neutral foreign policy, would-be terrorists like Osama Bin Ladin will no longer have the finances and support and REASONS to attack America. This having been said, America’s past foreign policy is no excuse for Osama Bin Ladin’s presumed crimes of the horrible acts of 9-11, but he will be given a fair trial once he is caught, and he will pay for his crimes if he is found guilty.”

Now, Jason, if our President actually had some BALLS and a little bit of humility, he could END all of this. But he won’t. He’ll just “Stay the course” as he loves to say.

It doesn’t have to be this way.


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#122963 - 12/29/06 09:57 PM Re: Check this out!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jason, never trust those in authority as Government figures, they are liars, just wanting to fill their own pockets with rich pickings.

I have been watching the middle east since I was a boy of 17, when Israel took on Syria, and the Golan heights saved Syria from deeper invasion because of the tactical position.

One country in the middle east uses us as poodles to do their dirty work, and they want the middle east to themselves devoid of Arabs.

Afghanistan was invaded to put a huge gas pipeline through from Russia against the Taliban who said they will fight any invasion.

No weapons of mass destruction were ever found in Iraq, and Iran is no threat to anybody.
Why? The lies! Greed to forge into territory to rape it of its assets.

Think of the unthinkable, your president who has stakes in the oil industry who uses Government money to make his stakes worth more to him.

How many Enron employees mysteriously committed suicide?
For whistle blowing on money being laundered and shady dealing.

The Taliban, not long ago hailed as freedom fighters, now find themselves an enemy in their own land.

It was OK when they did your countries dirty deeds, but then they fall fowl of their masters.
They are seasoned fighters, brought up from birth to fight any incursion of their territory.

The most highly trained fighters are no match for the Taliban fighter, the Russians found that out long ago after infliction of heavy casualties on their troops.

Osama Bin Laden will never be caught, he is still a Saudi Prince, and nobody wants to irk the Saudis, as they hold so much stock in the American economy, and he also knows too much.

I wish there was peace on earth, we all expect it, but it seems always so far away.
Jason, No, I was not taking a pot shot at you, but it is fair to say that I do read a lot of stuff from seasoned reporters.

Look up Noam Chomsky, he is a leading achedemic on world affairs, and he has a huge fellowship,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#122964 - 12/31/06 09:23 AM Re: Check this out!
endlessjourney Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 518
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
Hauser, I am dissapointed that you of all people would compare Bush to Hitler. Also, I have close friends in Iraq. In fact, a few came back this week. Do you think that they will just blow up some "aspirin factory" just because they suspect that the place harbors terrorists? You think that they kill innocent people aimlessly because the "suspect" something. The marines have to cover there own asses and prevent things like that from happening.

By the way, we took our troops out of germany in the 1920's and let Germany regroup on there own. Look what happened. A threat much greater than Kaiser Wilhelm II had arised. If we do not finish the job, things will get worse.

Why do they keep attacking us? Because radical Islam is full of tyrant mentalities. The ignorance of these people keeps them down and causes them to follow suite. They speak out against their leaders, then they are put to death. Much like hitler. If anything, the terrorist should be compared to Hitler. Not the U.S.

America's entry into World War I prevent the Germans from prevailing as well as World War II. We were attacked and left with no choice. We would be speaking German right now if we hadn't. So would the U.K., France, and the rest of Europe. We tried to stay out of it but the Germans made the mistake of attacking us. We had no choice. If we did not intervene, our Allies would be shattered and so would we. Our mistake was giving the axis the chance to regroup.

Yes, within the U.S., the sources for Bin Laden to attack us were derived. So, can we blame the whole country for that? Is that Bush's fault? "If all else fails, blame it on Bush". What a bunch of garbage.

Our president has balls. That is why were are fighting that war. Regardless of the constant scrutinization of the liberal media, he stays his course.

You know one thing. I speak directly with those troops that fight this war. They tell me that about 95% just want to get the job done and go home without anymore issues. Those who speak against our troops are the reasons why they can't get what they need to finish the mission. They need to do their job and they need all of the support they can get. They have mine. They are the reason I have the freedom to live in this country.

Saddam is dead! The Iraqi gov't condemned him to death. Not us. Yea, we didn't loose any sleep over his death but his massive acts of genocide were dealt with appropriately. He wasn't even tried for a fraction of his crimes and he was still put to death. Many of the muslims were competing to be the one's that hung him.

Ste,

I can't say that 100% of my trust lies in the government but I also can't say that they are evil just because they are an Authority figure.

Yes enron is corrupt. Very good. Does that mean that the whole U.S. government is corrupt?

I respect the fighters of Afghanistan but, the Taliban was responsible for attacking us. The Russians could not phase them. They attacked us, and we invaded their country and have anhialated the vast majority of them who were responsible for 911. We did what we said we would do.

I am glad you aren't "taking shots" at me but I will say one thing, what makes you think that the media and what you read is the truth. I have read things from resources that I would construe to be reliable. That does not mean that they are necessarily "right". The media distorts information no less than our government.

Ste, I deal with those who fight on the front lines and live this war everyday. Even when they are back in the States. They know why they are there and what they are fighting for. You say the world hates us. If we were not in existance, this world would have self destructed a long time ago. Iran and Iraq has threatened our safety by action and have stated that they wanted "death to Americans". No threat? I think you need to take a step back a evaluate the situation. What language do you speak? English huh. You speak that language because the U.K. didn't back down. Neither did the U.S. Period.

JASON

_________________________
Truth is the very reason we strive to live. It surrounds and resides within us. Accepting the truths we already know and seeking out those we do not is a direct path to inner balance and joy. For life is not a means to an end, but a journey. Life comes and goes but the truth will always live on.

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#122965 - 12/31/06 07:47 PM Re: Check this out!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jsson, the Taliban did not cause 9/11 and had no part in it.
The invasion of Afghanistan was done to enable a huge gas pipe to be run through the country.

The invasion of Iraq was done to get their hands on cheap oil, which has not happened.
You wonder why they seek death to America, when they got the hell bombed out of them for nothing.

A senior British Commander wrote the following;

"On President George W Bush and Tony Blair's handling of Iraq, Sir Michael wrote: "They tell us it is the Iraqi government that runs the country.

"This is disgraceful hand-washing. They know, under the Geneva Conventions, they were responsible for the disastrous breakdown of law and order in the country they invaded."

But he said Mr Bush had at least "put his money where his mouth was" by giving resources and support to his troops.

Sir Michael has previously called for Mr Blair to be impeached over Iraq, for going to war on "false grounds".

False grounds "weapons of mass destruction", they still havent found any!

I wonder why?

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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