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#11855 - 10/11/02 07:42 PM after the session
jaketk Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 49
Loc: illinois
Things are a little bit clearer now. We went to the therapy session last night. K's therapist acted more as a mediator. She was kind, took the time to ask our names, and kept things fair.

Where do I begin?

Well, k started off by asking us very bluntly why we let her father rape her. Some things you just don't remember unless the right order of things is done. I hadn't remembered what she was talking about until she said it. there were times when my uncle would have all three of us, my brother, cousin, and me, in the room while he raped k, and all we'd do was watch. For some reason, I thought she couldn't see us, that's just what I recall, but she could. I recall being alone with her and my uncle and him saying to me, “You want a piece of this pussy,” and me saying no. well, this really confused her, because when our uncles were there, we'd rape her, and when it was just her father, we would just watch. To her, it seemed like we were playing a joke. One minute we'd try to protect her, the other we wouldn't.

My cousin, who I'll call Ty, asked if that was why she called us rapists then. Her therapist was very surprised, I mean really caught off guard by it. k explained that she did because she didn't know how else to describe what happened. She equated us raping her as being protective, and us not doing it as not being protective. I guess we screwed up on that one. She said she'd rather have had one of us doing it to her than her father. I tried to explain that we just would never do anything like that without being made to because it's wrong, but k wanted to know WHY we would do it sometimes and not others. And almost on cue, she asked, “What, would they punish you or something?”

It was so hard after that. I couldn't look at her because she began to break down. I didn't want to se her cry, crying because we wouldn't tell her. She kept asking and asking, and my brother let it slip that we got punished for her "bad' behavior, regardless of whether she knew she was doing something "wrong' or not. My one aunt especially liked doing this. My uncles would tell us we had to watch k, and if she was bad, she'd get it. but, if we promised to make sure she wouldn't do it again, then they would punish one of us instead of her. So that's what we did. Whenever she got in trouble, one of us would take the punishment and try to keep k from doing it again. Occasionally, this didn't work, and she got beat, sometimes raped (but my uncles did it more to get to us than to hurt k). I know now, and I knew it then, I wasn't that na´ve, that my uncles and aunts were really using her as an excuse to see us in pain. It was part of growing up, I guess. All of us had to go thru it to be better at dealing with difficultly, or some bullshit close to that. I think it was really that they got off on it. one of my uncles would laugh the whole way thru while punishing me. He'd really crack up if I tried to hold back screaming and/or crying, and did a poor job of it.

So after the slip, k wanted to know what was done. she was adamant about it. I almost told her something, but when I tried to open my mouth, I almost broke down. I have to look people in the eyes when I talk about things like this, and it's already so hard. Seeing her crying, worried, trying to figure out what we were hiding, I just couldn't do it. I turned away and shut my eyes as tight as I could until the tears went away. I wouldn't look at her after that. she called my name a few times, but I just kept saying no.

Her brother ended up telling her about what we went thru. It wasn't any where near the worst of it. he kept it as decent as possible, just so happens my family is sick, so it was pretty rough to get thru. And most of the stuff was done to all three of us, so I kept thinking about when it was done to me, and thinking about when I saw it being done to them.

We spent most of our time building up to that. at one point, Ty told k that it was okay if she hated if. If it made her feel better, then that was fine. He only gave in to telling her about what happened because her therapist said that it would help k understand why we acted the way we did. Otherwise, I don't think he would have said anything. He told her, and her therapist asked about it too, that she really didn't need to know. it wasn't all that important. Our concern has always been protecting each other, not worrying about ourselves.

K expressed some anger about that. she kind of resented that we never let her do the same for us. in a way, we'd created a group amongst ourselves, and she wasn't included. Added to the way she wasn't included in a lot of what happened to all the males in my family, even with my uncles amongst their two sisters, she felt like we were keeping her out because she was a girl. She resents groups like that, male only, because it reminds her of how she grew up, seeing us only in school or during abuse, very little outside of being punished or just having been punished or just sleeping (sometimes we'd be allowed to sleep together, so we'd all cuddle up as close as possible. I remember a picture I think one of my uncles took of us sleeping. We looked like a bunch of puppies in a bed). And here we were keeping things from her, even though they are painful, she wants to be included in that. so even though we lived and grew up together, our abuse is different.

Her therapist gave Ty some referrals of some local therapists that we might want to check out to deal with our problems. And she suggested that we might want to talk about having group therapy with just us and bringing my younger brother and cousin to the session so that we can try to heal together.

It's a start. I looked over some of the names, and I'm thinking about checking it out. But I want a therapist that is somewhat experienced with dealing with boys and men who've been sexually abused. I think I'd be more comfortable with someone like that.

Things aren't all that better. it's only been a day, and last night I got some, but very little sleep. I couldn't stop thinking about the things that were done, and damn my body, I got an erection and it stayed up all night. After the first hour it really started to hurt. Even after I fell asleep. I spent most of this morning talking with my brother, we share a room, about some of the stuff I was thinking about. I wanted to get up and lay next to him, like we would when we were kids. Last night I really wanted to be held, despite how it makes me feel, but I didn't do it. one, because it's really strange for two brothers to do that with both of us being 19. and two, because I was too embarrassed by my erection. I told him, and he said to jerk off, kind as a reflex before he remembered about how it hurts when I have orgasms. Then he made me promise to go to a doctor to get it checked out. I made an appointment, it's not until the end of the month. I'm a little concerned about the costs. I know doctor visits are expensive. Just walking into the office seems to cost a lot of money. And god forbid I sit down and actually ask a question. Sorry, just wanted to break the tension a little.

Anyway, today wasn't as hard as yesterday was. I still feel pretty bad though. really dirty, and disgusting, but I think it'll pass in a few days. I hope.

Thanks for listening.

jake


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#11856 - 10/11/02 07:59 PM Re: after the session
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jake
your positive outlook and compassion for your cousin and brother is inspirational.

Whatever strength and support I could give you can have.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#11857 - 10/11/02 11:13 PM Re: after the session
mrsunshineguy Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Texas
Hi Jake,

Actually sounds like you all did pretty good. No, make that really super good work. I used to get that peanut-butter-and-gum-words-stuck-in-your- mouth-can-not-talk somewhere during most therapy sessions, too. It will pass.

Like SoCalJohn mentioned in your last string, we do still hold the perspectives of the injured little kids.

The cuddled up like puppies is cute. My girlfriend and I sleep all cuddled and tangled, too. But now our baby "chases" her around the bed all night.

Picking out your T is no small thing. I spoke with 10, did sessions with 3, (I am a contract engineer, so I HAD to go through a "qualifying the bidders process . . .") And then I picked the one my heart wanted because she sounded so nice on the phone when I first talked to her that I started cry.

She was actually the best qualified, too \:\) So . . . Listen to your heart.

And about going back through the mess, in therapy and all . . . .

After the shock and daze fades away, you do start to feel clean. And it sort of helps you keep going forward, like little rewards. By the time I got to end of therapy I was starting to get comfortable with that. Really, really clean. Never thought I ever could be. Just wonderfully clean. You will, too.

See you,

Sunshine


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#11858 - 10/12/02 12:59 AM Re: after the session
SoCalJohn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 510
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Jake,

You gave K and yourselves a great gift by going and talking about the stuff like you were able too, good stuff jake, real good. I can tell you guys really do care a whole lot about her and i know she can see it too, you guys are awesome.

Jake, just keep taking the steps one at a time and they become known to you, just speak the words that come to mind for you, its all ok, walk through those doors that show up in front of you, this is all about healing, when its time you will find that t that is right for you, just keep the talking going, ok?

[john] hugs jake, you did good jake, all of you.

John

_________________________
I asked him about this law he spoke of, he said,,, *watch* he then asked the others to share about their lives,,, the others talked of how things were for them, how things worked in their lives,,, and as they believed, it was so.

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#11859 - 10/12/02 12:57 PM Re: after the session
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Jake:

Wow! What powerful healing work all of you have done together!

I can only imagine how painful it must have been for all of you to go thru. But after all you've at least begun some serious soul surgery, to remove this cancer from your lives & relationships, to begin really healing & becoming whole persons, and a healthier family.

Surgery is painful, but sometimes its necessary or at least the best option. Seems to me all of you have made a good choice & begun some good therapy. And you've done it together!

You're beginning to break down the barriers between you put up becuz of the abuse--and again, not any of you are at fault for this.

Oh I know it takes time. But I hope all of you are coming to the place where you will be able not to blame each other or yourselves for what happened. From then to now, you've done the best you could with what you had.

Maybe more of this kind of group therapy will be a good thing for all of you, to get you together & get you talking together.

The more you do this the more you will understand each others actions reactions and motives. The less you will blame one another or yourselves. The more you will come to see & get to know each other & yourselves as the caring, courageous survivors you were then & are now.

Then you will be able to support, care for, appreciate & enjoy one another all the more. All that dysfunctional crap can be put to a stop in your family with your generation.

Thats quite a legacy to be able to give your children & generations to follow, and its quite a gift of hope & strength for yourselves. It's something I'm working on in my own family.

This may seem a long way off for you (all of you) now, but you've taken a big step. Again, you may want to take more of these steps of group therapy, especially since you seem to have a pretty good T for it.

Or this may have been all the major surgery you needed, or maybe you need time to heal scars & recuperate before doing this again.

Also individual therapy might help, and I'm glad you're looking into this.

As you know from this board, the support of other survivors, even "just" online, is very helpful. All of you are already becoming a great support group, a family, for one another!

Sure you feel dirty & disgusting (you're not, what was done to you was!), you feel bad. There's a lot of hurt there. You've been thru major emotional & spiritual surgery. You're tired, you have a lot of new things to process, you have a lot of cleaning up & healing to do.

But you are healing! And I for one (I'm obviously not the only one) am finding healing just from reading about your experience. Your courage and hope are inspiring.

Thank you for sharing this with us.

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#11860 - 10/12/02 03:26 PM Re: after the session
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
I am so glad to hear that you went through with the therapy session. It sounds like you all really brought your hearts with you. You have finally begun the long task of healing and there is no turning back now. I mean that in a good way. The road will be rough from time to time but will lead you to a much better life with the opportunity for real love and intimacy with others. You, your brother, and cousins have an opportunity here to stop the legacy of pain and suffering in your family and start things anew. I can only imagine how rough and scary it was to go to that first session and feel really proud of all of you, even though I don't even know you. You sound like a bunch of good guys, including K. Maybe you will include her in your lives now, she would probably like that. I wish you puppies all the best and urge you to continue your journey toward health. \:\)

Roy


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#11861 - 10/13/02 12:04 AM Re: after the session
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Jake,
Much of what you shared here ties in with issues that I still struggle with so I'm keeping my distance from them for the time being.

I just wanted to let you know that I admired your courage in going to this session. It had to have been tough and you were more or less on her turf instead of yours. I hope you are able to get some rest and hope you continue to remember that the shame and responsibility of what was done to you, was not your fault, it is not yours....

I'm pulling for you... but I just wanted to share this with you.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#11862 - 10/14/02 04:23 PM Re: after the session
jaketk Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 49
Loc: illinois
First I'd like to thank the support. This has taken a lot out of me, and I'm grateful that I have somewhere to put my thoughts.

I've been considering the therapy, but right now, it really doesn't fit into my schedule. That sounds really bad, but I don't want to drop a class or lose a day at my job. So therapy will have to wait for a little while.

These last few days have been different. I'm not used to the change in the dynamic. I think we've spoken more with each other in the last few days than we have in our entire lives. With that said, between my older cousin and my brother, things are still the same. It's been very hard to try to include k in the things we talk about. Despite knowing how much she wants to know about us, I find it difficult to talk openly with her. I find myself toning it down, leaving things out. We've talked a bit about a few things, and a lot of it she doesn't understand. It's hard to explain to her why I have problems with my sexuality, my masculinity, and my self-image. So I've kept most of what I've told her to beatings, or stuff similar to that.

Her therapist called, and wants to set up another session, maybe next Friday, to reoccur every other Friday. I'm thinking about it, but the last one was too intense. I think the ball's been set rolling, though. I also think k enjoyed, maybe appreciated is a better word, us sharing with her. But like I said, we still haven't done so fully. And I'm afraid to say to her that she's asking for too much too soon. Personally, I don't want to know EVERY experience she or any of my family experienced. It's not entirely necessary to be able to relate to them. But she'd persistent about it. She wants to know more and more. And the things she wants to know are so warped that even thinking about them makes me disassociate.

I am trying though. I do want to have a better relationship with her. However, amongst my brothers and my cousin, we know the limits, know where to stop asking, where to let it drop. We know how to a good streak of comfortable silence. We talked at the session, and I felt that it was enough. Not for forever, just for the time being. K's not being pushy, but she is causing me to throw up my shields, and now I talk with her with the expectancy that she'll ask me to tell her about this or that. It's making me slightly angry, because I'd like not to think about it all the time.

Maybe if we go to the next session, I might tell her that.

jake


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#11863 - 10/14/02 05:16 PM Re: after the session
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jake
maybe if you go to the next session it will become easier ?
Also you could all discuss some loose boundaries for the early sessions.

My thought is that you have all made such a heroic effort to get where you are - to be still talking is amazing - that if you make an excuse now then the excuses will become easier than going and it will drag on.

It's hard, harder than I'll ever know for sure, but it would be so easy to backslide now.

I'm positive you have the strength Jake.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#11864 - 10/14/02 07:08 PM Re: after the session
jaketk Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 49
Loc: illinois
i understand what you're saying. i don't mean to make excuses. i want to share more, but i think that this needs to be paced. as difficult it might be for k to listen to the things done to me, it's even harder for me to have to think about them long enough to put them into words. and then, it's only been a few days. i'd like her to slow it down. it seems like she's trying to make up for lost time, but she's not fully grasping that this isn't easy for me or my brother or cousin. granted, it's unfair that we already know what she's experienced, either by seeing it or being told about it, and she hasn't had that benefit.

and i understand that she has been left out, and that a large part of me wants it to stay that way. it is more comfortable to keep it like that, even though i know it hurts her.

the way she comes at me, it's like she wants to know everything all at once. i can't function like that. and the stuff dwells on my mind enough as it is. i have a hard time focusing, and then i have to think of things to be able to tell her, not because i want her to know, more to satiate her.

i want us to be able to relate better than we do. i want us to be able to have something close to a normal family. but i think some things should be my own. i do have a lot of boundaries. most of them are shut so tight it's often hard for me to speak my mind with i'm in the presence of people.

i'd really like this to be paced. i'm trying not to be selfish, but talking about these things take a lot out of me. and i don't feel any better afterwards. i feel like less of person. i know i have the right to say to k, “right now isn't a good time,” but i feel like if i say that, she'll be offended, and think i don't want to tell her anything. if we talked during the session, it might prove to have better results. if i offered it up to her, like if i said, “can i tell you something?”, that'd be different. it's not like that.

i know it seems really soon, like i'm backpedaling, but really, it's only been three days. i don't know if she's taking how we tell her these things into account. or if she's at all concerned about how we feel when we tell her. she just wants to know.

i'm trying very hard to open up with her, but she's pushing me too hard too fast. despite this being about her, it's my memory. it's my heart that hurts. i'm the one who can't sleep. i have to deal with having flashbacks all day. i'm the one who feels like he's being used.

is this bad? is it selfish? am i making too much of something that's really nothing?

i'm not sure. i just know i feel like shit, and right now i want a little space so that i can pull myself back together. even this is hard, because i won't say what it really is that i want.

i want k to back off and respect my right to share when and if i choose to. god, it took all of this to get that out. well, thanks for listening again, anyway.

jake


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