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#11576 - 10/12/02 01:11 PM Re: colliding views
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Ryan:

It sounds as tho you are getting to know your problems and their roots very well. Most importantly you are getting to know yourself: how to heal yourself, how to be yourself. Of course you're insecure, but you are on the right track and I know you'll keep at it, especially with that kind of good reading, and good support like here. Way to go!

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#11577 - 10/12/02 06:26 PM Re: colliding views
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Ryan
I've written often about my own battle with the fantasies that were so at odds with the person I wanted to be, although for a long time I didn't see it like that.
Mine eased off real slow, they still appear make no mistake about that, but they have lost there power. Masturbation now is just a hard physical effort. And it's got to the stage for me where what you describe as the "uanatainable supergirl fantasy" not working for you - now the stranger + blow job fantasy no longer works for me.
Unfortunately neither does anything else, although I'm to scared to indulge other fantasies incase they take on the life and power that the old ones did. And likewise with porn, I just daren't.
I don't need to either, I'm married to a very sexual woman, but I also lack the ..... whatever it is.. to initiate sex. Although I am getting a bit better very slowly.

So I guess I've just about become asexual in the effort to get rid of the fantasies and the acting out that went with them - not to mention all the guilt and shit. Is it too high a price ?
No, I have my sanity and my wife and I are working out ways of getting me over my problems.

I hate the fantasies and their all conquering pervasivness, I had a bad day on Tuesday - the first for months - and it wrecked me.
I can live without that.

We can all live without that shit.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#11578 - 10/12/02 09:53 PM Re: colliding views
ARW Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 161
Loc: LA
what a thread! This has probably been the toughest one for me to read. Cement, your honesty and effort is so comendable, it's awesome. I wish I had that strength. Working on it. Wife and kid are out of town tonight and I sat down at the computer with a (not so) subconsious intention of surfing porn all night. Then I came here instead (thanks for being here) - and found this. I had to drag myself through the posts. I am so stricken with lifelong sexual dysfunction and a compulsive attachment to porn. There is so much wisdom and inspiration in your words. I only hope, as RecoveringRyan put so well, that by accepting my feelings, the dysfunction dissipates. No sign yet, but it's early days for me. I really can't imagine ever being sexually functional or confident. But I forge ahead. And I'm so encouraged by the work going on here.
Thanks again to all you guys.
-Al

_________________________
In every cry of every man,
In every Infant's cry of fear,
In every voice, in every ban,
The mind-forged manacles I hear.
-William Blake

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#11579 - 10/12/02 10:04 PM Re: colliding views
New to this Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 138
Loc: Mississippi
I can relate to what all of you are expressing. I've been married for 10 years, but I've kept my steady girlfriend of 28 years. My wife could sense it and always had a fear that I would leave her. I finally confessed & explained that my girlfriend was actually my right hand.
Giving up my girlfriend was really hard.

I stopped initiating sex several years ago. If we had sex it was because my wife wanted it. She had begun to hate it and it had become painful. All of that has changed.

When I learned of my abuse(4 weeks ago) I told my wife. Over the next week I told her the details and everything about me connected to my abuse.
My wife has been very understanding. Being honest with her has broken down all of the walls between us. We have grown closer in the last month than in the previous 10 years.

Getting back to my girlfriend, I wanted to give her up and focus all of my sexual energy on my wife. Bless her. Except for 4 nights, we've done it every night or day for 4 weeks. I'm almost over my girlfriend--I've visited once in 4 weeks. I tell my wife when I'm in need, and we talk about it, and the thought of being with her gets me through the crisis.
It may never be perfect, but it is so much better, and just keeps getting better.
I still have a couple of issues to work through. Genital numbness is the worse. Combine that with a little Prozac, and I'm in for a long, hard evening(the crude pun is for Roy).
Communication and honesty have been the keys to getting through this.
The support and encouragement from you guys has been wonderful--I couldn't have done it alone.

_________________________
"Knowledge itself is power" Francis Bacon

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#11580 - 10/13/02 05:45 AM Re: colliding views
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
This gets deeper and better, you guys are describing just what I feel as well, and New To This - you seem to have made that great leap to actuslly asking or initiating sex with your wife.
I still can't get that bit, I was made to ask for sex with my abusers so I guess I still equate it that way. Even though I realise this it's still the major problem for me. Why can't I, after 28 years of marriage, just get on with it and make the first move ??
Boy, that pisses me off .......

I'm going to try Wuamei's trick and flush this shit. Or perhaps I should do what most of my school reports said - "Could do better if he tried"

Here's to dumping the fantasies and porn ;\)

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#11581 - 10/13/02 06:00 AM Re: colliding views
Broken Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
you were not very clear on your thoughts towards what you were doing. I misunderstood. If you are obsessing about something, then its not healthy, but sexual desire is a natural thing. All i was saying was that suppressing your sexuality will not help your relationship any.


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#11582 - 10/13/02 11:28 AM Re: colliding views
RecoveringRyan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 28
Loc: new york state
God I need this thread of posts.

Lloydy,

As you know, I have the same problem with not being able to initiate sex. I think for me the problem is that I feel guilty wanting anything, including sex, and I feel ashamed and disgusting in addition, when I would want sex, so I just can't conceive and feel the desire, and I'm so afraid of rejection, ridicule, and abandonment that I can't ask. That's my problem and I had thought it might be yours, too. But then I read your later post about having been made to ask for sex by your abusers and it rang a bell with me. I cannot ask for anything. I can't even tell my grandmother what food I would like when she wants to make me a dinner. I simply can't express my will and desire to/on another person. I think this is because I was so humiliated by my father as a child, when he yelled and laughed at me or punished me for everything I wanted or everything I wanted to do. There is just too much pain and humiliation already inside me from asking for things, that I cannot risk it now. It seems the solution to this is to admit the pain and humiliation and feel it, and eventually not be so afraid of it again in the future, so that I'll be able to risk asking for things and even be able to bear the pain of refusal without dreading it so much that I'm unable to do it. Maybe these thoughts will help you, I don't know, 'cause it's hard to guess what feelings are repressed in somebody else's or even my own unconscious.

I'm definitely as asexual as I can make myself be.

New To This touched (pun intended) on something that I've noticed is a big part of my sexual problems: genital numbness. It is so shaming for me, to admit this and to talk about this. But I have very little sensation in the places where I was touched by my perpetrator, which includes all of my genital areas. I didn't realize this until I did an exercise suggested by Wendy Maltz in the Sexual Healing Journey, which is basically just touching yourself and seeing how it feels and how little or much you feel. So I laid back and touched my penis and I noticed that I didn't really feel that much from just caressing it. I really was quite numb as far as physical sensation goes. I think this contributes to my masturbation/fantasy problem as well as to my occasional sexual dysfunction of not being able to have an orgasm: I can't feel that much through my penis. So, when this is happening, I am less stimulated by sex and have more difficulty having an orgasm, and I need more extreme fantasies to arouse me. Another way of putting it is that while masturbating, much less of the stimulation comes from physical sensation and therefore much more has to come from imaginary fantasy, so these have to be ever more intense. I was surprised how much sensation I was able to feel in my penis after just caressing it gently for a while and focusing on my numbness. I can imagine that this much better level of sensation would make sex that much butter. Also, I remember I was with a girl for a while who had been sexually abused. I eventually figured out that if I massaged her body for a while before sex she would get more aroused. I used to think it was only that she needed more than the usual amount of foreplay, but I've since begun to wonder whether she was numb, too, and would only feel and trust to feel after a comparatively long while of gentle caressing.

The whole touching myself sexual exercise thing seemed kind of corny to me and I was afraid and ashamed to try it. But it worked, I've got to admit. My fear and shame still prevent me from doing it that often though. The image of me lying there in bed alone just touching myself, but not really masturbating, in order to recover sensation in my numb body--well, you can see how ashamed I am.

Ryan


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#11583 - 10/13/02 04:56 PM Re: colliding views
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Ryan
we're on the same wavelength here my man.

I too am afraid to ask for anything, and always end any request with a garbled "I'm sorry, I don't want to be a nuisance" etc etc....
I apologise for everything and ask for virtually nothing. If I'm short of loose change in the morning and need a smoke I dread having to ask my wife, and end up doing a grovelling act.
She doesn't stop me having the change if I need or anything like that, I just have a problem asking.

the sexual numbness sounds a bit interesting, perhaps we've beaten them sensless ??
But what's the score with that ? I'd like to know a bit more about it.
And don't feel ashamed of doing something to help yourself. ( just don't get caught ;\) )
If it works, it's right Ryan. Let me know more please.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#11584 - 10/13/02 05:57 PM Re: colliding views
New to this Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 138
Loc: Mississippi
I re-read this string and realized how screwed up our thoughts about sex became because of our abuse.

Breaking out of my old habits has been really difficult.

I though it might be helpful if I summed up the last month.

I went to a psychiatrist for an evaluation. He really pissed me off because he spent an hour talking about me being sexually repressed. About 30 hours later I remembered the circumstances of my abuse. Four days later, under hypnosis, I remembered the details.

I told my wife when I remembered that I had been abused. When I remembered what happened, I told her the details.

Then came the hard part, telling her all of the things that I had done because of the abuse.
She knew that I had been looking at porn on the net. She thought that I was looking at other women. I had let her think that because it was easier than telling her I was looking at men.
Learning of my abuse let me put my attraction to men in perspective: my first sexual experience was with another boy(even though he forced me, it was still fun). I didn't want to be gay, I was just re-living that first experience--trying to understand perhaps. I flushed that shit.

The hardest thing was telling her that I had acted out a as teenager. I had several encounters of my own choosing just like my abuse.

After telling her all of this, it was really easy to tell her how much I needed her, but I had to flush a lot of shit first.

The secrets I was keeping were a real barrier to being intimate. Being honest about myself and my past allowed me to be honest about my current needs also. I would recommend some honesty. Lets face it, if you're married, how suprised could your wife be at this point. They know or sense more than we give them credit for, but they also know better than to ask.

I'm dealing with the numbness with her help. We've made a game out her making me shiver. She's even learned a new trick(something I would not let her do before). I'm having to retrain myself to feel. The numbness was so bad that I could not relate to a guy doubling over in pain after getting hit in the crotch--I was that numb.

I made some connections between my abuse and my sex life. I was really turned off by French kissing. My wife did that once and I asked her not to do it again. When I remembered my abuse it made sense: it felt about like a limp penis getting hard in my mouth. When I made the connection, I got over it. Now I enjoy those deep probing kisses.

I never talked during sex. That's an easy one to explain--its hard to talk with a dick in your mouth.

About the porn: I could spend hours on the net. I didn't know what I was looking for--I was just looking. As soon as a picture loaded, I clicked on another. I think I shut down a couple of free sites. Now I think that I was looking for my perp, trying to make myself remember my abuse.

So far, every problem has had an explaination.

I don't mean to keep bragging about how much I'm getting, its just that in 10 years we never did it this often. Not counting today (yet) we've done it 25 out of the last 28 days.

A month ago I was no different than you guys in my sexual life. So guys, quit taking matters into your own hands, try some honesty, flush a load of shit and go for it.

Devon

_________________________
"Knowledge itself is power" Francis Bacon

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#11585 - 10/13/02 06:11 PM Re: colliding views
bec Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 187
Loc: chicagoland area
fellow men:

wow, this post and the replies are fantastic! they really hit home for me and make me think hard about myself and my reliance on porn and masturbation.

wow, i feel a bit overwhelmed by it all! i am reading and writing in a public forum so i am somewhat uneasy. i do not want a child peering over my shoulder and reading any of this. but, i know i truly need to read this.

please keep this line of sharing up men. i truly need it for one. i need to go guys but i will return asap to hopefully read and share more. thanks so much

bec


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