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#11209 - 04/26/03 11:46 PM A Body Re-minder
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
A chain of recent setbacks, events, issues to deal
with, books I've read & posts I've shared in here are reminding me anew of the importance of listening to my body, which often has to re-mind my mind of my limits, my priorities, my proper direction, etc.

I'm also seeing more than ever the importance of doing good body work as a way of working on my mind in recovery. I've had to become more intimately aware of my mind-body connection, how the mind & the body affect one another.

Now I'm seeing more clearly than ever that I must allow myself to learn from my body, and let my body teach my mind how to heal as it heals. My body is trying to tell my mind how to be me, and I must listen.

There is deep grief, anger & bitterness in my mind
my soul, my psyche. Only in the last few weeks am I realizing how much & where much of it is coming from. It's all stored & pent up in my body, increasing my chronic pain, weakening my immune system, wreaking havoc with my stomach, wearing me out.

Therapy, support, counseling, reading, mind work is important & helpful. But I must do more body work, work out what is trapped in it. Until I do I'm seeing that any mind work is going to be hard to well put my mind too.

I've been doing more water aerobics but I need a lot more. I need some heavy specific body work that will work specifically on areas where stress & abuse traumas are trapped & pounding away trying
to get out.

I've heard & read a bit about how rolfing or deep
tissue massage can help. If anyone else has any experiences or good ideas they can share about good body work that is good for the mind as well,
I'd be glad to hear about it.

I know some stuff has been shared before I could probably look up. But if anyone has anything new or a good reminder or even a link to a post I'd appreciate it. Maybe some recent experiences with certain types of body work or massage that has helped you or someone you know. Maybe some good books or websites. Whatever.

Meanwhile I'm gonna check into stuff around here. And get an appointment like yesterday for a deep tissue massage from my massage T!

Also if anyone can help with forming a giant foot to give the medical insurance industry a swift kick in the arse, or a boot up the arse if need be, I'd appreciate it.

I'd get body work a lot more if my damned high priced low coverage medical insurance would cover things like that instead of just cramming pills into my system!

Maybe I'm just gonna have to get it done anyway!

But if so I need something that people have experienced that really works, at getting at the pain & getting it out, not only of the body but of the mind.

After all they are connected.

Last time I looked anyway. :rolleyes:

Thanks for a place to vent & any experiences or whatever you can offer to a sore wolf.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#11210 - 04/27/03 01:21 AM Re: A Body Re-minder
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Victor,
Uh, can you have that double spaced typed and in perfect grammar along with references.... smile! As I was reading your post, I thought he is thinking the same way I am as I am beginning to write my 20 page term paper.

The things you are hitting on remind me of what I have been reading in the book "Compassionate Touch" by Dr Clyde W. Ford. Another article that I just read which may be helpful as well (although a little scientific). The link to this article is http://www.traumacenter.org/van_der_Kolk_2002_In_Terror\'s_Grip.pdf . It talks about Post Traumatic STress Disorder but equally applies to what we have been through.

I am like you that the therapy is great and I have needed it to get to the point where I am at today. However, I am going to concentrate more now on things like Yoga, relaxation and body work of various types. To me, my mind has progressed but it is the cells in my body that need healing now. In some of the stuff that I have been reading for my paper, movement and body work helps release the energy that is bound in the cells. I believe it from what I have seen in my own life. And it isn't so much about trying to put each specific memory with each cell (would take a long time since we have around 100 trillion cells). It is more about becoming aware of where we are at in the present time and being with that awareness to evoke the necessary shift or change in our bodies that we need. Bodywork tends to deal with what is going on in our bodies at that current time instead of looking back at the past from what I am reading.

I put a link up the other day about my notes so far from the book "Compassionate Touch". I think it is in this forum under a heading Compassionate Touch. I think this link may get you back there. http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001794

I've tried shiatzu and I really loved it. Probably will try it again soon. I'm still doing Yoga when I get the chance which is not often enough and it is helping me tremendously especially with the person that teaches it and how she does the class. I've heard the water movements are very helpful but have not tried them yet. My partner is trying accupuncture and in the two visits that he has gone to, I've seen a change in him (although he isn't able to see it yet).

I love this topic... not only because I am writing a paper on it, but because I struggle with all of this personally.

Victor, I'm glad I have met you on this forum.. YOu are an inspiration to me and I was just telling Jeff last night that it is nice to have someone to talk to that understands the impact of body work on healing (especially when we come from some of the physical things we have come from). Just had to say this because it means a lot to me to be able to talk to you about this and share with others as well.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#11211 - 04/27/03 10:18 AM Re: A Body Re-minder
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
Victor,
Uh, can you have that double spaced typed and in perfect grammar along with references.... smile! As I was reading your post, I thought he is thinking the same way I am as I am beginning to write my 20 page term paper.
Don, I would love if possible to be able to read your term paper when it is completed.

Actually, where a lot of my fellow students used to get really uptight about writing papers, it's something I thrived on. A great way to express my creativity, thots & feelings.

Quote:
The things you are hitting on remind me of what I have been reading in the book "Compassionate Touch" by Dr Clyde W. Ford.
Apparently I must get Dr. Ford's book!

[/QB][/QUOTE]Another article that I just read which may be helpful as well (although a little scientific). The link to this article is http://www.traumacenter.org/van_der_Kolk_2002_In_Terror\'s_Grip.pdf . It talks about Post Traumatic STress Disorder but equally applies to what we have been through.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Don this article is good! It confirms & adds fresh
insights into stuff I've been reading about & starting to realize:

“Now brain science is showing that our emotional states originate in the conditions of our bodies: for example our body's chemical profiles, the state of our internal organs, and the contraction of muscle in our face, throat, trunk and limbs.” (p 9)

This confirms my reading in "The Body Bears the Burden" by Dr. Robert Scaer & in other places.

“A prime characteristic of both children and adults with PTSD is that in the face of a threat they cannot inhibit emotional states that originate in physical sensations.” (p 7)

So true, and I'd never thot of it quite so plainly
before. No wonder, tho, that good massage & chiropractic has helped me so much. Dr. Ford, I noted, is among other things a chiropractor.

“Practical anxiety management skills may include training in deep muscle relaxation, control of breathing, role playing, and yoga." (p 8)

Yes this is the kind of stuff I need to do more. Also heard a lot about rolfing, and Pilates.

Role play, while I wouldn't have thot of it as body therapy tho it is in part, led to one of the biggest breakthrough's I've had in recover, last fall:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001168#000000

Quote:
I am like you that the therapy is great and I have needed it to get to the point where I am at today. However, I am going to concentrate more now on things like Yoga, relaxation and body work of various types. To me, my mind has progressed but it is the cells in my body that need healing now.
Don it's interesting. I've been giving token thot to doing more serious body work, but thinking more
about deeper cognitive therapies I could do, such as TIR (Traumatic Incident Reduction) or EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing), both of which can involve some body movement but are primarily cognitive as far as I can tell.

I'm coming around to see that what needs the deeper work right now is my body where the traumas
are trapped. And body work is much more readily available to me in many forms than these more cognitive or behavioral therapies. Probably about as well covered by medical insurance too, tho that isn't saying much.

Still, when will I learn that the price of not doing what you need or even may need to do is greater than the price of doing nothing or doing things that seem less costly but aren't really needed anyway?

Maybe now...

Quote:
In some of the stuff that I have been reading for my paper, movement and body work helps release the energy that is bound in the cells. I believe it from what I have seen in my own life.
From my brief experience & reading in this area I'd definitely agree.

Quote:
And it isn't so much about trying to put each specific memory with each cell (would take a long time since we have around 100 trillion cells). It is more about becoming aware of where we are at in the present time and being with that awareness to evoke the necessary shift or change in our bodies that we need. Bodywork tends to deal with what is going on in our bodies at that current time instead of looking back at the past from what I am reading.
Good point, Don. My T keeps dealing me that even in confronting & dealing with the past I must focus more on the now.

Also I noted this from your notes on Dr. Ford's "Compassionate Touch":

"An underlying premise of Compassionate Touch is that we can work with the physical truth of the body to resolve any related emotional truths, regardless of the source or nature of those emotional truths. Simply stated, when working through the body we do not really need to know the source of trauma in order to help the client heal." (p 9)

Still, without applying specific memories to each body cell, has any of your reading or work shown anything as to the potential effectiveness of specific work on specific parts of the body that have been traumatized in certain ways?

How might this tie into body work like rolfing, acupuncture or acupressure for instance?

Quote:
I put a link up the other day about my notes so far from the book "Compassionate Touch". I think it is in this forum under a heading Compassionate Touch. I think this link may get you back there. http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001794
It did. Many of your notes & quotes stuck out for me, like these:

(Pg 17) Survivors often feel the consequences of their abuse. These feelings are not abstract concepts, they are experienced through the body. Likewise, healing from abuse must also occur at this feeling level of the body."

(Pg 19) Our bodies can be our greatest ally or toughest adversary in the process of healing and recovery.

Some others hit me that I'm going to post about separately & soon, along with some stuff from the Van der Kolk article.

Quote:
I've tried shiatzu and I really loved it. Probably will try it again soon. I'm still doing Yoga when I get the chance which is not often enough and it is helping me tremendously especially with the person that teaches it and how she does the class. I've heard the water movements are very helpful but have not tried them yet. My partner is trying accupuncture and in the two visits that he has gone to, I've seen a change in him (although he isn't able to see it yet).
Yoga, I could and probably should do more of.

Acupuncture or acupressure I've often thot of trying. Just gotta make sure stuff is gonna be worth getting into, and trying it once probably doesn't help much.

Shiatzu I know virtually nothing about. But I remember you posting before about how it was helpful to you.

Water movement, even in water aerobics, does seem to be helpful. I've also heard of things like water yoga, tai chi and even Pilates, tho I have yet to learn much about them. With my fibromyalgia
I have a feeling these could be quite helpful.

Quote:
I love this topic... not only because I am writing a paper on it, but because I struggle with all of this personally.
And Don you've not only come a long way but have also helped others, myself included.

Quote:
Victor, I'm glad I have met you on this forum.. YOu are an inspiration to me and I was just telling Jeff last night that it is nice to have someone to talk to that understands the impact of body work on healing (especially when we come from some of the physical things we have come from). Just had to say this because it means a lot to me to be able to talk to you about this and share with others as well.

Don
Don I'm glad I met you too and thanks for all your support & encouragement.

I've got a lot to consider & work thru here.

TC & TTYL my friend.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#11212 - 04/27/03 07:52 PM Re: A Body Re-minder
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Victor
When I get my paper done, I will probably post it on the internet and I will make sure you get the link. At one time I could crank out "technical papers" without much thought. Now they tend to be more difficult for me as I love to just sit down and write whatever comes to my mind. I'm going to try and write/research/present this paper so that I can expand it further for a possible workshop. That's down the road a ways though.

I am finding a lot of good information and I am learning a lot for my personal self as well which is a good thing. A good friend of mine told me about Van der Kolk and the work he does with this. Actually her advice was to focus more on PTSD and include child abuse because she said people would recieve it better and probably learn more from it. It took me a little bit to understand what she meant, but I think I agree with her. Sometimes the mere mention of child abuse or domestic violence and people put up too many defenses before you get the next word out.

I don't think I will be trying accupuncture any time soon because of the needles But the shiatzu really worked to release energy that was built up in me. It helped me recenter myself after the treatment because I felt at the time I was really getting fragmented. I'm about at that same point right now as the stress is piling up on me.

Of course relaxation is very good for the body as well and I think we have to be careful to not over do things, but search for that which works for us. And of course what may work today, may likely change tomorrow in how effective a set treatment is.

A good friend of mine in school has fibromyalgia and uses Tai Chi a lot. I am not familiar with Pilates.

The lady that teaches yoga is very good because she continually reminds us to just honor our bodies where we are at, don't try to push ourselves in to limits we shouldn't go but to listen to our body and then do the yoga accordingly. She also really focuses on the breathing as we are doing the yoga.

Some good stuff man, and I'm glad were together on this journey.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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