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#10907 - 08/20/04 02:45 AM Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
Bryan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 37
Loc: tokyo
Sorry so long, this is my first contact with Humanity in nearly a Year, I found this site via Mike Lew:s second book and hoped to find some kindrid spirits. SECTIONS as follows:

Background (brief, but Light Triggers here),
Intrusive Thoughts
Long Term Effects,
Family Confrontation and
Forgiveness
Future?!

Background=======Light TRIGGERS in this section only========
As 3rd consecutive non-ballerina born to a woman expecting a daughter-ballet successor as the price for giving much nurturing, daily life growing up was a torure chamber wherein my 4-years-older brother was free to add torture techniques with impunity, my mother saying *you:re only asking for it, sometimes* ALL the time. This was a protective device to shield her from the effects of her nervous breakdown she had when I was three and becoming an active child – the father was/is Old School and thinks he should have no responsibility for the emotional rearing with his 2 sentence *I remember my brother hit my arm until it was black and blue. But when I finally outgrew him I got him back good one time and never took a beating again*…he even trotted these two sentences out for a trot one last time after I confronted him with the sexual abuse aspect of my abuse 4 years ago now. For years I didn:t even know what to call what was done to me, calling my brother:s thumb going in-thru-my-out-door, playing with the dog and exposing himself, except an *Extended Melvin* a Melving being pulling someone:s pants up between their buns. By 11 years old I had Shell Shock, me throwing up my hands in the air and ducking from my passing brother passing me in the house hallways in the inevitable Twacks (hitting the skull) and abuse-potpourri. I did, however, retain one last .22 caliber bullet from dad:s rifle in case I decided to off somebody…it would be another 20 years of mindlessly carrying around this bullet from Los Angeles to college in San Diego, back to LA then finally San Francisco before I fully contemplated the meaning of this bullet (and had my Viet Nam Sergeant roommate help me to disassemble/disable the bullet).

Intrusive Thoughts========================
Were it as simple as the original Events replaying themselves as exact Reruns, I would have paid attention to the Big Picture and pieced together all the effects of the abuse puzzle long ago. As it was, flashbacks related *merely* to (I now know) Shame-based-Identity of my daily events and it was only after 35 years I realized the small percentage of my daily intrusive thoughts were roughly the same Top Ten Flashbacks of the original physical (and later I would realize emotional and sexual) abuses; I now realize this mode of Flashbacks is not atypical.

Watching a TV show in my 31st year on rape of girls was a girl who had her father doing same thing brother did to me and I found myself screaming at her on the TV aloud, *the same damn thing happened to me and you don:t see me crying on the TV about…………Rape?*… I stopped dead in my tracks with the impossible realization this was the first time I had found a word beyond Extended Melvin that actually described what happened to me. It would be years more as I put together all the pieices of my abuse that had affected me multifold. Instead, as a dutiful lifelong codependent and caretaker of 2 parents who were themselves physically abused by older siblings, I did not press the family much nor come out with the new applicable word Rape, preferring instead to minimize another mild confrontation with them to *merely* the well-known physical abuse aspects of my upbringing with the slight new slant of my considering a sex change and general sexual confusion. Concurrently my failed relationship with my boss who gave me the 400 hours of emotional abuse (she clearly should better have been giving her becoming-Ex husbank) and boss also was driving my friend/coworker to a 20th floor suicide (he jumped in front of her office window) I suffered my first bouts of Adult fullblown Shell Shock, which I now know is the same PTSD Viet Nam vets have. At the time I was moving from Los Angeles to San Francisco and realized more than subconsciously I was moving to get away from my family, Distance in time and space.

Long Term Effects============================
Finally, after 6 years of an invigorating existence in SF, I found myself 6 years without any sex (now grown to 10 years without sex/yikes!) and realizing that as great as my Dotcom existence was, I still was isolated as hell emotionally and had come both to resent the opposite sex while also defining my happiness not in terms of how Good life was, but rather how Not-Bad life was. I should have been perhaps happy enough with this.

As a supervisor:s abuse/marginalization tended me at work, I also realized I was having Flying Dreams with LA as the locale I was flying from, together with nightmares of a sort of scary Tasmanian Devil phantom chasing me into bed at which time I would wake up thrashing in bed, struggling with the Devil who had caught me. Usually I would go back to sleep and forget these dreams, but I could no longer ignore them once I started injuring myself with these thrashes and said *Oh that injury is just from my…..uh….repeating…Nightmares?!!!* I had been having variations on these Devils since childhood when these dreams took the form of Nuclear Bomb explosions. Clearly even my 6 years of Elavil was not doing the job (pre>
_________________________
Bryan Beezer

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#10908 - 08/20/04 10:48 AM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Beezer

Yu said:
Quote:
I cannot forgive anyone, least of all myself. 4 years on these Issues and every decision I make just seems to make Life worse, so I:m unable to make decisions any more out of fear it will get worse
There is nothing for you to forgive to yourself. You are a survivor and that means that despite what happened to you you are here right now and that is huge. Additionally you did not ask for what you got. The horror of it is that it has influenced every aspect of your life. Just remember what happened to you was the worst thing in your life. Even worse than a war. It is not your shame or guilt. The fanily's rejection is unfortunately all to often the response that we get.

Read my post FEAR?ANGER and ISSUE. They might help.

I am sorry for why you are here but am glad that you have found us. You will find no judgement or rejection here. Cause we have all been where you have been in one way or another.

You have joined the greatest bunch of guys it has ever been my privilege to know. So stick around and heal with us.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#10909 - 08/20/04 03:19 PM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Beezer

glad you took the step, and come in, it is hard to make the move, to post your life.

You say, you cried writing this, this is good, crying is a form of release for hurt. Sometimes in our past we cry so much, there is nothing but dryness left, but it the release it gives, for the built up emotions.

Welcome

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#10910 - 08/26/04 05:37 AM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
Bryan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 37
Loc: tokyo
Thanks for welcoming me Church adn reality2k4. It:s tough for me to get computer time here in tokyo. I don:t know if this thread will be viewed by anyone, but here:s a try for simplification:

Church:s reply brought serious tears. My old roomate had his own brand of VietNamPTSD and I never wanted to *insult* him by saying *what I went thru was just as bad, maybe worse*! After all, he was product of a US Marine:s/Cherokee killing machines, so had at least 18 years training before he was drafed. Church:s Validation of *worse than War* was nicely put. I had no training, except being squashed from day 1, yes it lasted my whole life. I did read Churchs ANGER? and am still processing.

Re: forgiving myself, I am still heavily triggered by one main thing in Life and that:s the secondary wounding that fucked up my professional/financial life:

4 years ago before Dealing with Issues, I had a damn good job, money in the bank and professionally the world was my oyster, personally at least I could smoke pot and enjoy the Moment of Life. NOW, that career, the money and the window of opportunity pro-future all are seriously gone. While I have solved some of the OLD Issues, it came at the cost of Secondary Wounding causing NEW Issues which seem even more insurmountable. I:m broke, in debt, cannot smoke pot to enjoy even the Moment...in a word Joyless.

Bottom Line is I guess I:m trying to Forgive myself for *deciding* to deal with OLD issues, since the NEW issues, ie: I want my OLD problems back, even at the expense of the Ignorance I was suffering from. I feel I wasted all my Retirement savings (and future earning$) just to figure out a OLD Puzzle. I often think I would rather be a workaholic again, even if that means disabling my sexuality! The Secondary wounding seems worse the the Original wounding. Yes, I wish I could have read books warning of psychologically dangerous Family Confrontations or found you guys, but that:s not how it worked out. Books don:t seem to cover my case of losing half a million dollars to Confrontation and Secondary Wounding. Now I REALLY have to be a workaholic til I die! They say *it gets worse before it gets better*, but I:m stuck in *It will always be worse*. Is there anyone else out there whose life was destroyed by Confrontation and PTSD secondary wounding?

_________________________
Bryan Beezer

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#10911 - 08/26/04 02:14 PM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Bz,

think a lot of lives have been battered, some make it good, but most spend our lives constantly "in there". I am sorry it cost you so much, through secondary wounding.

I lost my career footing, when I was just starting out in the work field, and I know what it is like to lose such good chances, they hurt me right thru life, I too have to work so long for so little.

The good thing is though, that you found this place, and I hope you can put some of the pieces, where they should be, that is the greatest thing, I find, in this place, where people are sharing, their life experiences. It brings back a lot of emotions in me, some I had buried and forgotten about, the more I can bring up, the better it should get, or that's the theory

take care and keep safe

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#10912 - 08/26/04 06:49 PM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Beezer

Quote:
In effect I feel as though the Abuse has Won;
NO! It hasn't won at all.
The simple fact that you recognise what happened was abusive, in all it's forms and from many people, make you the Survivor you are.

It might not seem like it right now, but you are a Survivor.
You write that you see little future for yourself, but I think differently. You can't be 'dumb' to have had the career you had, and you certainly ain't 'dumb' to have figured out all this with barely more than Mike Lew's excellent book!

What you've done though, and this is just my therory, is to figure it out intellectually but not so much emotionally.
Crying is a good start, good therapy is the way I would go from here.

Quote:
Bottom Line is I guess I:m trying to Forgive myself for *deciding* to deal with OLD issues, since the NEW issues, ie: I want my OLD problems back, even at the expense of the Ignorance I was suffering from.
This also seems a bit like starting at the end, looking for your emotional end-game without playing the full game.
I know that for 31 years I thought I was 'smart enough' to deal with all the dysfunctions in my life by myself. I though that I could change my end-game through nothing more than telling myself to change.
But the methods I was using to try and achieve that change were exactly the same each time I tried, and guess what? I got the same results for 31 f******g years! :rolleyes:


Quote:
but no word nor chapter can touch upon my FUTURE devastation. There:s not a single day I awaken without the thought of *Confrontation has ruined my Life irrepairably and forever* and it:s hard going forward
So, maybe instead of taking the difficult road forward, maybe go a little bit sideways first, and then move forward?

Relief and the life we deserve IS a real possibilty, I've changed my life over the last 5 or 6 years. I don't kid anyone that my life's perfect or that the change came easily.
I still have problems, but I have learned new methods of dealing them, I shook off the old ones and was then forced to think for myself and devise "my" new ones. It wasn't easy, and I certainly couldn't have done it without good therapy and great support, but I did it. \:D

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#10913 - 08/27/04 07:24 AM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Welcome here Bryan. I am sorry you have spent so long in pain over the past, and sorry that you have had to find this place at all. The only person you have to forgive is yourself. Of course, to say that would imply you done something wrong, which you haven't. Neither have I, or anyone else here. But we all carry the guilt and shame, and feel part of it is our fault. So we need to forgive ourself for that and put the guilt and shame where it belongs. On those who hurt and damaged us. I wish you good luck, and hope you will come here often and find it helpful to you.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#10914 - 09/03/04 12:18 PM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
Bryan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 37
Loc: tokyo
I hear what Lloydy is saying about me playing my Endgame and Leasha about forgiving yourSelf.

In the end, I:m terribly afraid I may not be able to forgive myself for my PTSD sliding into total dysfunction and screwing the pinnacle of my careet. I cannot help but think *If I ignored all this even just 1 more year, I could reply to this girl:s personal ad wanting *Professional/Established* and get some love (even if it:s only sex).* The financial devastation seems worse even than the original abuse (or just as bad). How do I forgive myself for not now even being able to pay for a date?!

_________________________
Bryan Beezer

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#10915 - 09/03/04 01:40 PM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Bryan we all did that in one way or another. Whats to forgive.

Hey and one more year you say. Well think about it. And then it came out. Different situation but the same damned thing. Bryan you coped all those years and that is a hell of a lot different from living life to the fullest.

So now you are dealing with the shit head on. No more is it a phantom playing in your brain. Not it is real. Only when something is real can we discover how to deal with it.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#10916 - 09/03/04 02:31 PM Re: Confrontation=Secondary wounds, Forgiveness
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Hi Beezer,

Welcome to the MaleSurvivor group!

And thank you for taking the time to post a part of the story of what your life is like with the effects of the sexual abuse.

I recognize myself in so many of the episodes you describe. Especially the financial ruin part, since that seems to be what has happened to me also.

What works for me most days is to make my recovery from the sexual abuse my number one priority every day, one day at a time. It feels so strange to me to go to therapy twice a week, take meds twice a day, see a shrink, post here, go to AA and so many other things I have learned to do. But I spent all my energy and all my life avoiding the issues of sexual abuse so now I get to spend the same time learning to love and care for myself.

I find that by focussing on my recovery the other stuff like finances and love/sex seems to a) become less overwhelming and b) to find its own solutions.

It's sort of like they say: When I focus on my problem the problem gets bigger, when I focus on the solution, the solution gets bigger.

I think forgiveness for others especially is highly overrated, particularly early in recovery.

For me forgiveness has come to me on its own terms and of its own accord after I have done all the other things I can do: such as becoming aware of the abuse, acknowledging the damage done, ACCEPTING myself and learning to love and care for myself.

I think it was very hard for me to even imagine "forgiveness" while I was still in the agony of feeling the gross betrayal and the sorrow of the tremendous loss that sexual abuse represents.

I needed and still need to experience the hurt, the sorrow the anger, even some rage so that I can begin to heal. As I heal and grow more comfortable with myself, then forgiveness has more of a chance.

I'm glad that you are here, though I am terribly sorry for what has brought you to us. No matter what, from now on, you do not have to go through this alone--that's a promise that we make here at MaleSurvivor.

For me that was enough of a beginning to keep me coming back.

It is possible to recover from sexual abuse. It is happening to me and I know it can happen for you too.

When it gets to hard to keep going, come here and let us carry you with us for a while. We all take turns here; none of us are perfect.

Keep coming around. Keep posting. You will get better and then you will begin to feel better.

Regards,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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