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#10054 - 01/04/07 08:24 PM Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
Simple question but I think some people have gone on to abuse after being abused themselves.

I feel they don't have a place here but it's a proven fact that some members, who will remain nameless, have gone on to abuse and continue to post.

As soon as a survivor abuses they become nothing but another abuser. It may seem harsh but I'd be interested to see what others think.

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

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#10055 - 01/04/07 08:41 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Mark

I totally agree anyone who sexually abuses and is attracted to minors should not be on this board. No I dont think you are being harsh at all and now I know something about perps (other than my own experiences) as I have been dealing with them on my blog for the last week now. I suspect that whoever it maybe may get some sort of perverse pleasure out of being a member here, now that is sick and the person concerned should seek help but not here.

I would not give a perp an inch as they would take a couple of miles

Kirk.
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#10056 - 01/04/07 08:48 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i dont know where to draw the line. if we eliminated everyone that went on to act out in some way after being abused, how many would we have left here?

i for one played on other's lack of knowledge to get them to explore sex with me when i was a kid. technically i used greater knowledge to take advantage of them, and that fits the definition of abuse, even if i was only a kid and really didnt fully understand.

then you get into a time factor. there is a huge difference between someone that is currently abusing, and someone that did something twenty years ago that they are ashamed of and come here to somehow make peace with it.

i wish i had a firm view on this, but i dont. i think it depends. no, i dont want someone who is out there today abusing a kid to come here and brag, but this is a place for survivors to come and share. we've all did things we are not proud of, and in many cases those things are in our distant past. that is far different from someone that is currently abusing in my mind.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#10057 - 01/04/07 09:21 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I think we need to be careful here, and if you have evidence, then it is best to contact the board.

I for one would not come here if I was abusing kids, I would never put them through so much shit as I went through, and see them with no life to carry on.

I might have well been murdered as a kid than go through that, and we all know what I am talking about here.

I am over protective of kids, and I hate even having to think I should need to be, but it is an instinct I grew to embrace,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#10058 - 01/04/07 09:28 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
Being abused is going to effect your own developemnt and view of sexual relationships as a child. Maybe I should have made it clearer.

I'm talking of survivors who abuse children when they are adults.

The mods are aware.

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

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#10059 - 01/04/07 09:47 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Survivors who abuse kids are perps first, and it is up to the mods to decide whether someone who is abusing has a right to be here.

I would have thought Not! Would be the answer,

ste

Edited to say that Hauser would not be considered as an abuser by me and most.
Things you did as a kid are not the same as being perped by an adult.

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#10060 - 01/04/07 09:49 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
mark,

"As soon as a survivor abuses they become nothing but another abuser."

So by this definition they are no longer survivors?

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#10061 - 01/04/07 09:55 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
onefastbike Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 84
Loc: Toronto
You stop being a victim the SECOND you CHOOSE to become a Perp.

If you are posting here you KNOW you are doing wrong and need help and to be stopped.

Either get help, turn yourself in, or jump off a bridge. Just stop hurting children. You KNOW what harm you are doing.

(childhood acts aside)

_________________________
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever.

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#10062 - 01/04/07 09:58 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
I think I would tend to trust the board on their discretion. There are always so many factors in this sort of stuff that if we make a hard and fast rule, someone who needs help and can be helped will not get the help they need.
At the same time I don't think anyone wants an active abuser around. When those pedophiles were on here a few weeks ago, I was a mess. I was scared to death to come here. If you have hard facts and can prove it, take it to the mods and the board. If they have chosen to act differently, there must be something going on we don't know about. They are great guys who work really hard to protect us all.
Paul


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#10063 - 01/04/07 10:00 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
onefastbike Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 84
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul1959:
When those pedophiles were on here a few weeks ago, Paul
what did I miss???

_________________________
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever.

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#10064 - 01/04/07 10:17 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
There was an instance when a few 'boy lovers' decided to post after a blog from Kirk, I think.

They were quickly despatched,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#10065 - 01/04/07 10:19 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
onefastbike

Perps that I am having hassles with on my blog, but nothing i cant handle as they are making themselves look bigger sickos than I possibly could. I am a firm believer in "give them enough rope" and they are sure doing a splendid job.

Kirk.
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#10066 - 01/04/07 10:19 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
A former member here had been attacking pedo's offsite and his activities brought them (the pedos) HERE trying to defend their "good names" so to speak. In essence, his actions brought an unacceptable element to this site and the posts have been removed.


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#10067 - 01/04/07 10:20 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
onefastbike Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 84
Loc: Toronto
_________________________
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever.

Top
#10068 - 01/04/07 10:23 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Sweet


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#10069 - 01/04/07 10:26 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
At least they were overt in their believes so easily spotted.

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

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#10070 - 01/04/07 10:38 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
If a survivor is actively abusing others then I say he has no place on our main forum. I would include survivors who are abusing their spouses or children in this definition by the way, since a wife beater is just another flavour of perp.

If Malesurvivor wants to let him into the At Risk forum that's their business, but I say a definite no to having them in the main forums.


OFF TOPIC - onefastbike, does BFG stand for Big Fucking Gun? :p

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#10071 - 01/04/07 11:00 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
onefastbike Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 84
Loc: Toronto
Actually.. yes it does.

_________________________
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever.

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#10072 - 01/04/07 11:12 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
I am not comfortable with the thought of perps being here, reading my posts and writing their own BS posts. I have no doubt they are here lurking about but I think they should be expelled and certainly not encouraged to post.

Dale


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#10073 - 01/05/07 01:16 AM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
Mark & all,

There are many CSA survivors that have acted out in inappropriate ways. As the newest moderator here, I am very impressed with commitment, dedication and work ethic of the all the moderators. Any and all concerns of our membership are discussed, debated and acted upon in a timely manner by the entire moderator team. Due to privacy issues, our actions are not discussed, nor will they be discussed publicly, with anyone.

That being said - I know who you are referring to. It has been addressed. It will not be discussed further. We have no reason to believe that any member of Male Survivor has recently, or is presently abusing anyone.

If you (or anyone) has any new concerns, please contact me or any of the other moderators. We take all your concerns very seriously. The public forum is not an appropriate place to voice these concerns. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Brian

_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#10074 - 01/05/07 02:12 AM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
"It will not be discussed further"

Is that a command?

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

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#10075 - 01/05/07 02:25 AM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
Trust issues are really hard for many survivors. I think in this situation, we have to work to trust these guys who know more than we do. They care enough about this place and all of us to keep MS and us safe. Various of these mods and board members have had a HUGE influence on my life in the last 7 months. Their caring and involvement came to me in some of my darkest hours. They have my debt of gratitude. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.


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#10076 - 01/05/07 02:41 AM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Folks:
As a mod who has been on this board for as long as we have had a website (first as MALE then NOMSV and the last 5 yrs as MS), let me say this:

We have had these discussions many times over the years about the presence of obvious perpetrators (eg, the "boylovers" of a month or so ago), as well as heated discussions about what status someone would have if he acted out sexually with another when he was a child, teen or adult (including if the last time was a couple years ago, decades ago, etc.)

It is not helpful to bring up the debate again because experience is that it can be scary, exhausting, and other ways non-productive for many survivors. I set up "At Risk" a few years ago because there were some survivors who had either thoughts/fantasies about acting out on others, were engaging in self-defeating/destructive behaviors, or had actually abused others as children, teens or adults. It is a place to discuss these issues in the privacy of a moderated site (I check in several times a day) and feel confident that the discussion will not be visable to others and they can be open and honest.

The discussions there, in case you are wondering, are not about debauching the morals of anyone. They are more about hurting themselves and understanding what the thoughts/fantasies are in context of their own abuse.

So, my suggestion is to not get all flummoxed into some discussion about perps being around this site. The mods are very good at keeping this place safe and we either yank offending type posts (which rarely are made) or get tips from you all here when you think someone has made a statement that could trigger others or might represent a perp.

Keep the faith and work on your healing.

Ken


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#10077 - 01/05/07 04:07 AM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i'm glad i got a chance to tell them what i thought of them ,before the mods wiped them out ,i dont think anybody could have done it any faster seems like the system worked as it was supposed to .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#10078 - 01/05/07 09:41 AM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Grunty1967b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 823
Loc: Australia
To all the Moderators,

I (fortunately) didnít see any posts from these sickoís (that Iím aware of anyway).

It seems like it was all taken care of as swiftly possible.

Thankyou for taking care of all of us and the integrity of this site. It means so much to me.

Well done guys!


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#10079 - 01/05/07 10:12 AM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Dewey2k Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069
I just want to echo the thoughts regarding trusting the moderators. We can help them by contacting them with any concerns we might have regarding posts or posters. We are their "eyes and ears" if you will.

Also, as a parting thought, I want to thank the moderators and the entire MS administration for all the work you do on our behalf. You guys are awesome.


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#10080 - 01/05/07 01:32 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i guess i feel lucky i missed all of that as i worked hard to close out our year here at work and didnt have time to come here. i am glad i missed it too.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#10081 - 01/05/07 08:56 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
duncanUK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 632
does this mean the perps are getting a sexual fling out of our sufferings? if so can u please remove mine from the board?

duncan

_________________________
you dont see me. i am not really here. Its my fault.. all of it. I am to blame and no one else.

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#10082 - 01/05/07 09:41 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Duncan, unfortunately this is the public side of the forum.
It is encouraged that you become a full member to use the member private boards.

Anything public is just that, open to anyone who has a morbid interest in hurt etc.
Unfortunately from time to time, synister members infiltrate the boards to annoy.

In the past, such members have wreaked havoc in a short time, and the other members stop posting, or stayed away.

Posts like this thread should not be allowed in member forum, as it is at least intimidating to some members on the board.

How many of us felt like perps after being hurt, guess what, most of us did.
I would be surprised if anybody did not, and it brings up trust issues etc.

Anything such as this should be taken up with the mods, and not have members distrusting each other,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#10083 - 01/05/07 09:56 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Dewey2k Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069
I think Duncan is in earnest. His perp IS on this board.


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#10084 - 01/05/07 10:06 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
duncanUK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 632
i have asked a mod to remove my comments from here. may cause trouble.

duncan

_________________________
you dont see me. i am not really here. Its my fault.. all of it. I am to blame and no one else.

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#10085 - 01/05/07 10:08 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Get the webmaster to ban his IP address.
webmaster@malesurvivor.org

You can also do a traceroute if the mods give you the IP address, and nail him good style.

Just a thought,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#10086 - 01/05/07 11:06 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
Russ2 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 77
I do not think any self-confessed (or otherwise visible) child molestor or pedophile should be allowed to make any contributions here whatsoever. MaleSurvivor.org should protect innocent survivors only and let the perps have their own organization somewhere else!

Russ


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#10087 - 01/05/07 11:39 PM Re: Should male survivors who have gone on to abuse be allowed to post?
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
Well the member I was originally referring to was seen posting on a pro peado site about his offending, and directed a known perp to this site. The site has since been closed through the amazing work of another member of this board (You know who you are and your a legend!!).

Before anyone starts to worry I'm not going to name the guy that posted on the peado site.

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

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